ROMS said to be Incorrect? Score Status: Inactive...

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Twin Galaxies
Official Record Keeper
[2004]
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Rules For High Score Submission
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High Score Submission Sheet
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NOT POSTED ON TWIN GALAXIES SCORE BOARD

Why has Steve Wiebe's 947,200 Donkey Kong high score gone into inactive STATUS? He now has a 1,006,600 on July 4, 2004 on tape and delivered to Twin Galaxies. Same problem with the Referee's being that they think the ROMS are incorrect. The timing is said to be different than the timing on other Donkey Kong boards according to Twin Galaxies Referee's who viewed the tape. However, all the technicians in Washington say the board is real and on correct ROMs and correct settings. Is it true that this score has been moved to a different list as not to be compared to Billy Mitchell's Donkey Kong high score in the next Twin Galaxies book?

ALWAYS REFER BACK TO THE HARD BACK OR SOFT BACK EDITION OF THE AMERICAN GUINNESS BOOK OF WORLD RECORDS: (1985), (1986), (1987) (1997) FOR ORIGINAL SOURCE OF ALL HIGH SCORES



RMRUCZEK: Robert T Mruczek TG Board of Directors - Link to Original Text on Twin Galaxies Board Posts: 3316 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:12 pm Post subject: TG Reply - DK Performance -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello MKM: At this time, the verification process is still underway. The performance in question, if the score and ROMset combination is legitmate could be a significant scoring achievement, and therefore TG is doing everything within our experience and with the tools available to us, in order to ascertain the legitimacy of the score, in fairness to the gamer in question and to the gaming community. The verification process has been underway for some time, and it is our position that until complete verification is attained, no official pre-announcement of this performance could be made. That would be jumping the gun. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me directly at my at-work E-MAIL address. I will be happy to answer. Thank you. Robert _________________ Robert T Mruczek Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) ****************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MKM TG Advisor Posts: 1597 Location: $C000 - $CFFF Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:05 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I didn't know Steve had broke 1 mil! WOW!!!!! Billy has got a lot of work to do to retake the Donkey Kong title as Steve had broke 1 mil on both! Impressive! Billy still can be the first to break a million on Ms. Pac-man! _________________ Please send me a Private Message to get my email for TG/game questions. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregory Erway Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 02:08 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scootie, I'm very familar with this situation and can probably shine a lot of light on the situation. I think my info is 100% correct BUT I'm sure if I make a mistake I will welcome corrections. First of all a description of the move is in order. On the "Barrell Boards" (first board of the game and the board that shows up most often) the player can climb a ladder and make sure both of Jumpmans hands are on the girder above him. In this position, normal rolling barrels cannot turn and come down that ladder. Wayward thrown barrels can and will still occasionally hit Jumpan. This trick was only available on some versions of the Donkey Kong release. Other versions, the ones we almost always play today and the only ones accepted by Twin Galaxies toward record logging do not allow the trick. The very first Donkey Kong machines released were typically red in color. This is because left over game cabinets were used from a previously released game called Radar Scope. Most or all of these cabinets shipped with the first version of the ROMs which DID allow the trick. Later, some say in order to make the game harder, Nintendo released a newer ROM version that was shipped to arcade operators who swapped the chips to the new versions and discarded the old ROMchips. This new version did NOT allow the trick. Later released versions of the DK cabinet were blue. These are the most commonly found machines. They were all shipped with the newer ROMs that did not contain the trick (as far as I know). An easy way to identify if the game has the older ROMs (with trick) or the newer ROMs (without trick) is to watch the attract mode. At the point where the words DONKEY KONG appear, there is a copyright notice for Nintendo of America listed on the version of ROMs WITHOUT the trick. I believe the version of ROMs with the trick did not have this copyright listed but may have just listed Nintendo. I'm not sure. DK boards and ROMchips are labled with a version number. The version we almost always find today, and the only version Twin Galaxies tracks for record purposes, is one labled TKG-4. I have bought a set of TKG-3 ROMs in the hopes they contained the trick. They did not. I suspect there is a TKG-2 or TKG-1 version of the ROMs out there that may contain the trick. I would like to get my hands on such a set or board. I have purchased a set of DK PCBs that contained the Japan ROMs and these DO allow the trick. The main give away that this is the Japan ROMs is that all 4 versions of the boards (barrels, conveyors, elevators, and rivits) are present of every level (including Level 1) exactly one time each. Therefore a game to the kill screen contains 85 boards (including the kill screen) consisting of 21 of each board then adding one more barrel screen as the kill screen. A normal US set of ROMs (TKG-4) will consist of 117 boards to reach the kill screen (consisting of 57 barrel boards, 19 conveyor boards, 20 elevator boards, and 21 rivet boards). Thus if you wanted to go for a record, and Japan ROMs were allowed, it wouldn't make much sense to use them anyways. In addition, I have around 6 working DK boardsets and many have different hardware release variants even within the TKG-4 artwork. I do not know the differences and never looked close enough to figure it out. yet anyways. MAME ROMreleases, to date, do not seem to include any earlier version of ROMs that would include the trick. I was at an auction in 1997 where two Donkey Kong machines were sold. One you could do the trick on and the other you could not. The one that included the trick had a cabinet serial number in the 3000 range. The other was in the 50,000 range. I tried to purchase the trick version but failed. I did buy the other machine for $325 (the trick machine sold for $375). It was sold to someone that had no idea of the difference. He would have let me have the game but he liked the firmer controls on the one he bought. It was to be located in a bar in Brockport, NY somwhere near the SUNY school. I have often thought of tracking this guy down and trying to work out a trade for another working boardset or machine. I'm not even sure the bar would be in business any longer as it was a newly opening bar at the time and many don't make it through a single year.
Steve Wiebe - Donkey Kong High Score - One Million Six Thousand Six Hundred Points You can buy this DVD on EBAY and see the entire game. Link Steve Wiebe: Donkey Kong High Score of 1,006,000 Points on July 4, 2004 Nintendo Arcade Donkey Kong DVD - 1,006,600 Point Game! Item number: 8143397647 Winning bid: US $32.57 Ended: Oct-31-04 07:52:26 PST Start time: Oct-24-04 08:52:26 PDT History: 12 bids (US $0.99 starting bid) Winning bidder: zotmeister ( 8 ) Current bid: US $7.50 Time left: 14 hours 29 mins 7-day listing Ends Nov-08-04 12:05:11 PST Start time: Nov-01-04 12:05:11 PST History: 3 bids (US $5.99 starting bid) High bidder: eastbanksaloon ( 9 ) Item location: Redmond, Washington United States Ships to: United States, Canada Shipping costs: FREE - US Postal Service Media MailTM (within United States) Description Hello fellow gamers, My name is Steve Wiebe and in July, 2003, I broke the 20 year old record on the classic arcade video game, Donkey Kong, by being the first to crack the 900,000 point milestone with a score of 947,200. This achievement was highlighted on CNN, Sports Illustrated, Ripley's Believe or Not, and referenced on Conan O'Brien's late night show. Since this time I have been working on achieving what was previously thought by all, including myself, as impossible - Breaking the 1,000,000 point barrier! Almost a year later, I bring the exciting news that I have broken 1,000,000 points with a mighty score of 1,006,600! Last August, at the Classic Gaming Expo in San Jose, the official video game and pinball score tracking organization, Twin Galaxies, presented a poster at the banquet honoring this great achievement in classic video gaming. This score is the very first 1,000,000 point game to ever be submitted to Twin Galaxies and is awaiting final verification. Now you can own a piece of history by obtaining your very own DVD copy of this historic 1,000,000 plus point game! Learn all the strategies, tips, and techniques in conquering the awesome ape known as Donkey Kong and witness for yourself the legendary "kill screen" in action. Shipping of this item is absolutely free! The DVD will be well packaged and shipped in a lightweight jewel case at a remarkably low Buy It Now price of $9.99, including shipping/handling! Donkey Kong and video game enthusiasts, don't miss out on this limited time opportunity to own your personal DVD copy. Trust my feedback and bid with confidence! Thank you, Steve Wiebe - Donkey Kong Classic Arcade World Record Holder
Steve Wiebe in Front of Donkey Kong Jr. Steve Wiebe has #1 Score for Donkey Kong and #1 Score for Donkey Kong Jr.
Billy Mitchell gives a thumbs up Billy Mitchell - Perfact Pacman score and Donkey Kong World Record
THIS IS AN UNVARIFIED RUMOR, PLEASE DO NOT TAKE AS FACT UNTIL YOU SPEAK TO THOSE PERSONALLY INVOLVED. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The below is a rumor and you must contact the people involved to find out why Steve Wiebe's score is now considered INACTIVE by chief referees. According to this rumor, Billy Mitchell is Contesting the Steve Wiebe Donkey Kong Motherboard ROMS on Steve Wiebe's Coin operated video game as having the incorrect ROM settings. Billy Mitchell has not seen the DONKEY KONG tape but was told by other referres that the timing of the game seemed to be not correct when doing a mathamatical analysis of the game play. Steve Wiebe's Score is on the Inactive List? It seems that Billy Mitchell was very concerned that his high score was broken on an incorrect Donkey Kong ROM Chips. I have been told via the grapevine that Twin Galaxies people (Perry Rogers, and Brian Kuh.) showed up at Steve Wiebe's house to see the Donkey Kong Board in question. Brian Kuh, a banking officer from Manhattan, is a significant competitor on Brian Kuh: Donkey Kong, Food Fight and Bump n’ Jump. Brian Kuh, Referee score on Donkey Kong and Steve Wiebe Score on Donkey Kong: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Rank % Score Points Player Date Verified Method 1 100.00 % 947,200 Steve J Wiebe 07/06/2003 Video 4 60.01 % 568,400 Brian Kuh 05/11/2001 Referee -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently, Billy Mitchell thinks that the board has incorrect ROM's and wants that board to go to the technician "Spike" of Mike's Arcade (435)-577-2258 a technician who knows about all versions of Donkey Kong to make sure all the ROMS are correct. This is an unvarified rumor but leads one to believe that more reseach should be done. Spike is considered the best technician in the country and he would be the best one suited to find out if the board has any strange glitches or any other problems with it. Billy Mitchell thinks that Steve Wiebe is indeed a champion and is paying for all board consultations of the Donkey Kong Board in question. Billy Mitchell has respect for steve Wiebe's game play. In the mean time, Steve Wiebe's high score status is not active, because the board has not been analyzed by the professional "Spike" professional technician of the game. Billy Mitchell was told that the timing was wrong in the video taped game that was sent to Twin Galaxies. Hopefully everything will work out in the end. I do beleive the Donkey Kong board will be found to be in perfecly good working order with no added or deleted ROMS. If the ROMchips are incorrect Steve Wiebe must replay on a correct board to take down Billy Mitchell's score. Rumors come and go so lets hope there is a good reason that Steve Wiebe's score is on the inactive list with Twin Galaxies. www.twingalaxies.com Billy Mitchell is a partner in Twin Galaxies and has the power to do things you and I cannot do. He does have the right to question a ROM problem if one does indeed exist. This is still a third party rumor that needs to be looked into so please think of this as a story until the actual parties involved can be directly spoken with. The below are the original articles that accepted Steve Wiebe's high score, and Billy Mitchell's defeat, until now in the year 2004 when many new questions have been brought to my attention regarding ROM SETTINGS and not accepting Steve Wiebe's high score as the best score ever on Donkey Kong. I think that if a score is valid, and nothing can be found wrong with that score then that score must stand and not be tampered with in any way. Otherwise, it looks like fairness is not in play. Thank you.
Statistics: Steve J. Wiebe High Scores Steve J Wiebe Redmond, WA United States Game Score Rank Donkey Kong 947,200 1 Donkey Kong Jr. 1,004,000 1 Atari 2600 Stampede 2,193 9 ------------------------------------------------------------ Billy Mitchell's Past Records Link Billy Mitchell / B M, b 07-16-1965, Ft. Lauderdale, FL contest results: 1984 Video Game Masters Tournament: wr set on Burgertime, Donkey Kong Jr., Ms. Pac-man, Pac-man 1985 Video Game Masters Tournament: wr set on Donkey Kong wr kept on Burgertime, Donkey Kong Jr. 1986 Video Game Masters Tournament: wr kept on Burgertime, Donkey Kong Jr., Donkey Kong 1987 Video Game Masters Tournament: wr kept on Burgertime, Donkey Kong Jr., Donkey Kong world records: Pac-man score (3-way tie) contender: Burgertime, Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr., Ms. Pac-man ------------------------------------------------------------ Donkey Kong - High Score Variation: 3 Men, Extra at 7K [Default,TGTS] Platform: Arcade Rules: 3 men to start, one extra man at 7,000 Rank % Score Points Player Date Verified 1 100.00 % 947,200 Steve J Wiebe 07/06/2003 2 98.60 % 933,900 Billy Mitchell 05/27/2004 ------------------------------------------------------------- Donkey Kong Jr. High Score Variation: Tournament Platform: Arcade Rules: 3 men to start, one extra at 10,000 Rank % Score Score Player DateVerified 1 100.00 % 1,004,000 Steve J Wiebe 09/10/2002 Video 2 95.35 % 957,300 Billy Mitchell 06/11/2004 Referee ------------------------------------------------------------- Ms. Pac-Man High Score Variation: Factory Settings Platform: Arcade Rules: Difficulty : None. Start Units : 3. Rank % Score Score Player Date Verified 1 100.00 % 920,310 Chris Ayra 05/10/2001 Video 2 98.96 % 910,700 Darren Harris 05/10/2001 Referee 3 98.92 % 910,350 Rick D Fothergill 10/02/2001 Referee 4 76.45 % 703,560 Billy Mitchell 06/11/2004 Referee ------------------------------------------------------------- Burgertime High Score Variation: Factory Settings Platform: Arcade Rules: 3 men to start, bonus man every 20,000 points, end of level pepper set ON, Number of enemies on first screen: 4 Rank % Score Score Player DateVerified 1 100.00 % 8,417,500 Bryan L Wagner 07/13/2003 Video 2 69.89 % 5,882,950 Darren Kennedy 06/11/2004 Referee 3 59.15 % 4,978,550 Billy Mitchell 06/11/2004 Referee Billy has been playing at a very high level for over 20 years, and was crowned the Video Game Player of the Century while at the Tokyo Game Show in September, 1999 (and also had the honor of being selected co-player of the year at the 1984 Twin Galaxies' Coronation Day ceremony). While his mainstay DK and DKJ records were eclipsed in 2003, after being held for two decades, insiders tell me that he has some things 'cooking'. It's been reported that he's "planning something big and unprecedented" in response to Steve Wiebe, the person who now officially holds these two records. Rumor has it that he's already topped 1 million on Donkey Kong, and has also pushed DKJ to 1.2M+. In addition, the idea's been circulating about the possibility of someone (could it be him ?) getting past the split-screen on Pac-man. Keep in mind that this is the player who delivered history's first perfect Pac-man score, so, we'll see if he can next deliver... the impossible. Twin Galaxies References: Link Billy Mitchell was proclaimed the "Player-of-the-Century" at the 1999 Tokyo Game Show and was the first person to accomplish a "perfect" game on Pac-Man. He was also a founding member of the famous U.S. National Video Game Team in 1983 and appeared in the 1984 Guinness Book of World Records with five world record listings: Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man, Burgertime, Centipede, Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong, Jr. ------------------------------ Classic Games High Score List: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RMRUCZEK : From Funspot Message Board Older thread of New Steve Wiebe High Score TG Board of Directors Joined: 25 Sep 2002 Posts: 3247 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 3:36 pm Post subject: Donkey Kong (Arcade) - NEW WORLD RECORD !! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BREAKING NEWS - NEW WORLD RECORD ON DONKEY KONG (ARCADE) As reported July 5th, 2003 BREAKING NEWS - NEW WORLD RECORD ON DONKEY KONG (ARCADE) As reported July 5th, 2003 Hello fellow gamers: One of the most revered classic arcade records has fallen !! On June 30th, 2003, Steve Wiebe who hails from Redmond, Washington, has done it again. Last year he Kong Junior". This year, Steve's focus was on none other than it's venerable predecessor, "Donkey Kong" itself. The new world record, as verified by Twin Galaxies, now stands at a lofty 947,200 points. I had the pleasure of watching Steve's achievement as captured on videotape, and this was the first time ever that I had personally witnessed the "kill screen" in action. Most players have no idea whether "Donkey Kong" actually ends, but let me tell you, it does when you reach level 22, Stage 117 you start with a timer so low that it is absolutely impossible to make it up to the top of the screen, let alone the third girder up. In total, there are 116 playable screens that you can complete before reaching the "kill screen"...level one has two (2) stages, level two has three (3) stages. level three has four (4) stages, level four has five (5) stages, and levels 6 thru 21 have six (6) stages each, and of these (not including the "kill screen"), over half are "barrel" stages. The 117th and final stage (level 22-1, a "barrel" stage) offers few opportunities for points...perhaps 400-500 at most, before the timer expires. The name "Donkey Kong", when literally translated into colloquial English, roughly means stupid ape". Well, I beg to differ...this "stupid ape" is tough enough that only a small handful of players worldwide are documented in having beaten the game by reaching the "kill screen". Not so stupid after all, it seems !! The game allows you three (3) lives to start and an extra life earned at the 10K mark, which Steve easily earned. Steve's achievement took nearly 2 hours of game play, and although he had lost his third life relatively early in the game, he kept things going for a remarkable period of time, reminding gamers everywhere "Never give up, never say die", classic advice from another "Donkey Kong" master, legendary gamer Bill Mitchell. Owning the world record on a title such as "Donkey Kong" is quite an achievement, as the title has not changed hands much over the past few years. Only one other gamer in recorded Twin Galaxies history, Bill Mitchell, has simultaneously owned world records on both "Donkey Kong" and it's sequel, "Donkey Kong Junior", so Steve is part of a very elite group of gamers for sure. Congratulations to Steve Wiebe on behalf of the entire staff of the Twin Galaxies Intergalactic Scorereboard on a job well done !! Robert T Mruczek Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee Star Wars classic arcade champion rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- stevejwiebe Guest: Twin Galaxies Message Board Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 3:16 am Post subject: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Donkey Kong (Arcade) - NEW WORLD RECORD !! Link It's great to see all the interest and I appreciate the support. I personally think it's the best game of all time and I'm glad others feel the same. This score was achieved just a couple of weeks ago in my garage. The ROM chip is the newer standard version that does not allow mario to safely hang out on the ladder in the barrel stages. As far as random thrown barrels - interestingly enough, these barrels are most dangerous in levels 2 through 4 where they seem to heat seak and pick up high speeds. There's so many situations that a generic defense is hard to put in words. I usually just try to steer the barrel away by moving mario left and right. Then when the barrel is right on mario I'll jump to avoid it or move forward and have it sail overhead (and pray). Sometimes death is ineviteable.
The good thing is that the higher levels (5 and up) do not have such visciously thrown barrels. On these levels it's just a matter of knowing donkey kong's tendencies and watching out for the thrown barrels. The main barrels to watch for are the ones dropped around the ladder just under the upper hammer. If the path up the ladder is too clear, then there's a good chance that donkey kong will drop a barrel in this zone. Just pause a split second before proceeding up this ladder to make sure that a barrel is not thrown. The next danger zone is right under donkey kong while hammering. After grabbing the hammer I always hesistate to make sure there is no barrel dropped on mario. Sometimes I have to back pedal to hit thrown barrels. Anyway I've probably gone into much more detail than cared for but I enjoy sharing playing tips and information I've gathered over the years. Hope this helps. Boyfriend (Mario) Needs to save Pauline from the big Ape, (Donkey Kong) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Below are Twin Galaxies Statistics regarding Steve Wiebe and Billy Mitchell Donkey Kong standings. LINK --------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Wiebe - Donkey Kong Champion --------------------------------------------------------------- Search by Player Donkey Kong High Scores List: Link Name: Steve J Wiebe Donkey Kong Variation: 3 Men, Extra at 7K [Default,TGTS] Platform: Arcade Rules: 3 men to start, one extra man at 7,000 Rank % Score Points Player Date Verified 1 100.00 % 947,200 Steve J Wiebe 07/06/2003 2 98.60 % 933,900 Billy Mitchell 05/27/2004 3 92.82 % 879,200 Timothy F Sczerby 04/23/2001 4 60.01 % 568,400 Brian Kuh 05/11/2001 5 42.02 % 398,000 Leo Daniels 06/11/2004 6 40.26 % 381,300 Eric Henckel 06/11/2004 7 36.83 % 348,900 Rick D Fothergill 06/06/2001 8 31.46 % 298,000 David Nelson 06/06/2001 9 31.07 % 294,300 Neil Chapman 06/27/2002 10 28.51 % 270,000 Steve Sanders 06/11/2004 --------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Wiebe --------------------------------------------------------------- Search by Game: Donkey Kong Search by Player: Steve Wiebe Donkey Kong, Arcade, 3 Men, Extra at 7K Rank 1 Score 947,200 Score Type Points Player Steve Wiebe Redmond, WA United States Date Achieved Saturday, March 02, 2002 Date Verified Sunday, July 06, 2003 Verification Method Video TGTS Variation Yes Default Variation Yes Rules 3 Men, Extra at 7K 3 men to start, one extra man at 7,000 Score Status: NOT ACTIVE Last Found: October 16, 2004 ---------------------------------------------------- Search by Game: ALL Search by Player: Steve Wiebe Rank % Game Score 1 Donkey Kong 947,200 1 Donkey Kong Jr. 1,004,000 9 Stampede 2,193 ----------------------------------------------------- Billy Mitchell - Donkey Kong Statistics - Donkey Kong ----------------------------------------------------- Search by Player: Billy Mitchell Name Donkey Kong, Arcade, 3 Men, Extra at 7K Rank 2 Score 933,900 Score Type Points Player Billy Mitchell Fort Lauderdale, FL United States Date Achieved Thursday, May 27, 2004 Date Verified Thursday, May 27, 2004 Verification Method Referee Score Status: Active TGTS Variation Yes Default Variation Yes Rules 3 Men, Extra at 7K 3 men to start, one extra man at 7,000 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's see if Steve Wiebe's score will become active in the future but for now it is not. When I find out more from Steve Wiebe himself, over in Redmond, WA, I will pass on the infomation regarding the ROMS on his Donkey Kong Board. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archived Article: Donkey Kong World Record Smashed ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaming Age News: Donkey Kong World Record Smashed Tim Lewinson Date 7/8/2003 The world record for one of history's most revered classic arcade games has fallen. Steve Wiebe of Redmond, Washington, has scored 947,200 points on Donkey Kong, leaving in the dust noted rivals like the legendary Billy Mitchell and Timothy Sczerby of Auburn, NY. "The feat was recorded on videotape so future generations can see how it was done," explains Walter Day, Chief Editor of the forthcoming edition of Twin Galaxies' Official Video Game & Pinball Book of World Records. Wiebe is not a newcomer to video game royalty: last year he became the first player in Twin Galaxies' 23-year-history to pass the one million-point barrier on Donkey Kong Junior. "Donkey Kong was one of the top three most hotly contested titles in arcade history, the other two being Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man," says Robert Mruczek, Chief Referee for Twin Galaxies. Mruczek was the Twin Galaxies employee who viewed Wiebe's 2-hour long videotape in order to verify the legitimacy of the claim to the Donkey Kong title. An extensive analysis of Wiebe's accomplishment, including many scoring milestones, has been prepared by Robert Mruczek and can be found at the link. LINK ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fun & Games Tech News ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Man sets new Donkey Kong record REDMOND, Washington (AP) -- Steve Wiebe now rules as the Donkey Kong king after setting a new world record with more than 900,000 points in the classic video game. The victory was a solitary one. A few times a week, after his two young kids had gone to bed and his wife, Nicole, was busy working, the 34-year-old would head to the garage and turn on the video camera that would prove his score. He diligently set to work maneuvering Mario to dodge objects thrown by an angry ape. "Since I'd been trying so long, it wasn't like I jumped out of my chair or anything (when I got that score)," he said. Record stood for 20 years Finally last week, the Redmond resident broke an 879,200-point record set last year by a New York man, which edged past one set nearly 20 years ago by Billy Mitchell, a Florida man generally consider the Don of the Arcade Game. Mitchell's mark was 874,300. Wiebe scored 947,200 points in the 22 levels, and 117 stages of the game. He sent a videotape documenting his feat to Twin Galaxies, the definitive scorekeeping organization for gamers. The record was big enough news to video-game enthusiasts that they crashed the organization's Web site, said Robert Mruczek, chief referee at Twin Galaxies. "If you beat a gamer with the caliber of Billy Mitchell, that's a feather in your cap," he said. "They're the cream of the crop when it comes to video gaming." Despite all the points, Donkey Kong is not a game players can win. It ends with what's known as a kill screen, a final level that's impossible to beat. Even if a character could run headlong through the course with no obstacles, it never could make it in the time allotted. Wiebe has been hooked on the game since college. Mitchell, 37, says he only counts his scores if they're played in a public venue, and he won't say if he can beat his cross-country competitor. He'll only say that he's planning something big and unprecedented in response to Wiebe's win. Nintendo smiles The competition is just fine by Nintendo, which created Donkey Kong. "We always smile when we hear about these kinds of things," company spokeswoman Perrin Kaplan said. "Donkey Kong means 'stubborn monkey' (in one rough translation from Japanese), and the fact that (Wiebe) was able to achieve this many points against a stubborn monkey says something." Wiebe said he'll keep striving for the million-point mark, then retire. The former Boeing engineer and computer-software tester plans to head back to school to become a high-school math and science teacher. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Age: Donkey Kong Article August 8, 2003 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Donkey Kong enthusiast earns record-setting score Seattle August 8, 2003 In the video game world, it's the equivalent of a coup. Displaying a singular talent for leaping over barrels thrown by a cartoon ape, American Steve Wiebe set a world record at Donkey Kong recently, netting nearly a million points at the classic video game and unseating both a record and a legendary player. The score to beat had been set nearly 20 years ago by Billy Mitchell, a Florida man largely considered the Don of the Arcade Game. Though a New York man squeaked by last year with a slightly higher score than Mitchell, Wiebe dethroned the king and quietly weighed in with a hefty 947,200 points in a tape sent in to the definitive scorekeeping organisation, Twin Galaxies. The record is the biggest news of the year to video game enthusiasts, said Robert Mruczek, chief referee at Twin Galaxies. So many people checked in for the score, he said, that the organisation's website crashed. "If you beat a gamer with the calibre of Billy Mitchell, that's a feather in your cap," he said. "They're the cream of the crop when it comes to video gaming." Though Wiebe's win might have seemed sudden to the gaming community, the victory was a month in the making in the 34-year-old's garage at his home in Redmond, Washington. A few times a week, after his two young kids had gone to bed and wife Nicole was busy working, Wiebe would go to the garage and turn on the video camera that would prove his score and set to work. Sometimes he'd barely pass the halfway mark, other times he was achingly close to the golden score. There was a point when he hit the low 900,000s, but that wasn't going to be good enough. It wasn't until June 30 that he was satisfied. "Since I'd been trying so long, it wasn't like I jumped out of my chair or anything (when I got that score)," he said. "I was getting burned out playing so much, but I was determined to go for it." He has been hooked on the game since college, when he'd bang away on the arcade game that he sold after he graduated. But his passion reignited when he learned that a score he'd informally set years ago would be enough to beat the world record. Though any record is significant in the gaming world, it seems there's something about a Donkey Kong record that carries a little more prestige than the scores of scores that deluge Twin Galaxies each month. For starters, it's a classic - right up there with PacMan as the game with the most old-school credibility. But the angry ape is a mightier foe than a few gliding ghosts, Mruczek said, and high scores at Donkey Kong are much harder won. In fact, Donkey Kong is a game players can't actually win. Instead, it ends with what's known as a kill screen - a final level that's impossible to beat. Even if a character could run headlong through the course with no obstacles, it never could make it in the time allowed. Though Wiebe broke the current record, it's the million-point mark that would be the true prize. "It's a tremendous thing to be the first person to get a million on a game like this," Mruczek said. "It's sort of like being the first person to get a ticket at a first baseball game for a gamer to achieve a threshold on such a respected title." Wiebe, however, is no stranger in the online chat rooms and countless websites that make up the far-flung gamer community. Last year he became the first player to get a million points on Donkey Kong Junior, the sequel to the popular game. He beat out Mitchell for that record as well, though the well-known player still retains the record at Pac-Man and several other games. "I can't tell you how many players told me they would reach the kill screen (of Donkey Kong) and became so frustrated that they just sold their machines," Mitchell said. "That's a credit to Steve." Mitchell, 37, says he only counts his scores if they're played in a public venue, and he won't say if he's able to best his competitor. He'll only say that he's planning something big and unprecedented in the video-game world as a response to Wiebe's win. That kind of fire is just fine by Nintendo, which created Donkey Kong. The company loves. Donkey Kong facts Birth: Created in 1981 by Nintendo, the game is considered a classic. Object: Mario must climb several levels to save his girlfriend, Pauline, from Donkey Kong (an angry ape) before time runs out. To thwart Mario, the ape throws down a series of objects that Mario must avoid. Points are won when Mario gathers objects along the way or smashes those that Donkey Kong throws down. There is no known point maximum, and the game ends with a level that's impossible to beat. Demographic: Because the game is a classic, Donkey Kong fans tend to be a bit older than the average so-called "serious gamer". They range from 30 to 38, the theory being that they've had more years to excel at a game they discovered in their early teens. Sources: Twin Galaxies and www.klov.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Donkey Kong World Record Broken! 7/8/2003 at 2:26 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Those crazy guys at Twin Galaxies have done it again! Standing at a lofty 947,200 points, Steve Wiebe now holds the world record on the classic arcade, Donkey Kong. Hailing from Redmond, Washington, Steve had previously broken the Donkey Kong Jr. million point threshold last year. On June 20, 2003 he set his sights on and broke the record on the parent machine. Steve joins the only other person to hold simultaneous records on DK and DK Jr., Twin Galaxies legend, Bill Mitchell. A rare group, indeed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- New world record on Donkey Kong written: July 1, 2003 It took a story this big to snap me out of my writing slump. Steve Wiebe, a man who has rightfully earned himself a place next to Billy Mitchell in the video game Hall of Fame, set a new world record on Donkey Kong on June 30th: One of the most revered classic arcade records has fallen !! On June 30th, 2003, Steve Wiebe who hails from Redmond, Washington, has done it again. Last year he became the first player in Twin Galaxies history to pass the one million-point barrier on "Donkey Kong Junior". This year, Steve's focus was on none other than it's venerable predecessor, "Donkey Kong" itself. The new world record, as verified by Twin Galaxies, now stands at a lofty 947,200 points. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Man sets new Donkey Kong record Thursday, July 17, 2003 Posted: 11:59 AM EDT (1559 GMT) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Man sets new Donkey Kong record Steve Wiebe became the first player to get a million points on Donkey Kong Junior, the sequel to the original game. He beat out Billy Mitchell for that record as well. -- Steve Wiebe, Kong king REDMOND, Washington (AP) -- Steve Wiebe now rules as the Donkey Kong king after setting a new world record with more than 900,000 points in the classic video game. The victory was a solitary one. A few times a week, after his two young kids had gone to bed and his wife, Nicole, was busy working, the 34-year-old would head to the garage and turn on the video camera that would prove his score. He diligently set to work maneuvering Mario to dodge objects thrown by an angry ape. "Since I'd been trying so long, it wasn't like I jumped out of my chair or anything (when I got that score)," he said. Record stood for 20 years Finally last week, the Redmond resident broke an 879,200-point record set last year by a New York man, which edged past one set nearly 20 years ago by Billy Mitchell, a Florida man generally consider the Don of the Arcade Game. Mitchell's mark was 874,300. Mario prepares to climb several levels to save Pauline from the big ape, (Donkey Kong). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ How to Play Donkey Kong: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This is the original appearance of Mario, the famous Italian plumber featured in many of Nintendo's later games. Your mission is to resuce the princess, taken captive by the evil Kong. The name of the game comes from a mis-translation or spelling error, as it was originally to be called Monkey Kong. Can you find the Donkey? The game is played on 4 levels: 25m, 50m, 75m and 100m high. On the first 3 levels your aim is simply to reach to top of the screen, and on the final level you must remove the rivets from the girders, causing Kong to fall to his doom, and then it starts all over again. On every level there is a bonus counter, and you must complete the level before the counter reaches zero, or you die. You are awared the score of the bonus counter on completion of the level. On level one you must make your way across the girders and up the ladders to the top of the screen, avoiding the barrels thrown down by Kong. The first barrel ignites the oil, and turns into a fireball which follows you up the ladders. You can jump over the barrels, and collect the hammer to smash the barrels for bonus points. On level two your aim is to make it to the level where Kong moves back and forth. There are no barrels on this level, just fireballs to avoid and moving conveyor belts filled with pies(!). Again collect the hammer to smash the fireballs and pies for extra points. You can also collect the bonus items, the hat, the umbrella and the handbag for extra points. On level three you must use the ladders and elevators to make your way to where the princess is standing. Avoid the fireballs and the bouncing springs. Timing is more important on this level, especially to get to the princess and not be hit by a bouncing spring. You can also collect the bonus items, the hat, the umbrella and the handbag for extra points. There are no hammers on this level. The fourth and final level is where you get to do some damage to Kong. Remove the eight rivets which connect the four upper levels by walking across them or jumping over them. Avoid the five fireballs which appear periodically on the opposite side of the level to where you are standing. Use the hammers to smash the fireballs, and collect the usual bonus items for extra points. Once you knock out the final rivet, Kong falls to the ground and you are briefly reunited with the princess, before Kong whisks her away once more and it starts all over again! On level 4, Donkey KongUS will go to 125 meters, with the progression being : barrels -> pies -> barrels -> elevators -> rivets. On level 5+, Donkey Kong US will go to 150 meters, with the progression being: barrels -> pies -> barrels -> elevators -> barrels -> rivets. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scoring: Jumping over a barrel/fireball: 100 points. Jumping 2 barrels at once: 300 points. Jumping 3 barrels at once: 800 points. Hammering barrel or fireball: 300 or 500 points. Collecting bonus item: 300, 500 or 800 points. Removing rivet on 100m level: 100 points. Jumping close to Kong on 100m level: 100 points. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Clones Japanese nintendo version . In this version barrels do not come down a ladder when you are standing at the top of it, and the levels play in the order barrels-pies- elevators-girders instead of barrels-girders-barrels-elevators -girders... Crazy Kong - Donkey Kong clone which runs on the same hardware as Crazy Climber. The most notable differences are a larger character set and the display rotated 90 degrees. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Playing hints/tips On the 50m level collect the handbag and go up the ladder to the right. Then get to the next level using whichever ladder keeps you away from the fireballs. Jump to the far edge platform and up to the next level as soon as possible. Then get onto the extending ladder as soon as you can, and hold up to get level with Kong as soon as the ladder extends. Kong does not move above your ladder so he can't kill you. Any fireballs on Kong's level do not come back down, but you will have to wait if one is waiting for you at the top of the extending ladder. On the 75m level take the up elevator to the top and jump right, avoiding the fireball. Then jump onto the down elevator and as soon as possible jump to the platform on the right, landing on either the upper or lower of the two platforms (lower is much easier). Once you make this jump, you have made a good shortcut, not having to worry about making your way all round the bottom of the screen. Climb to the platform where the springs move across, and they will not hit you at the right hand side of this platform. Then make your way left to the middle of this platform, and after the 2nd spring passes you run right and up the ladder without stopping. The next spring will seemingly pass through your feet as you climb the final ladder, but will not kill you, and you will complete the level. It will take some practise to master this, but once successful it should not be a problem again. On the 100m level remove the left side rivets first snaking from bottom to top, and then collect the hammer in the middle of the screen. Smash as many fireballs as you can and stay right of the centre of the screen. New fireballs will then appear on the left, cut off from you by the removed rivets. Then you can remov e the right side rivets with much less to worry about. It IS posible to jump a fireball. Just a matter of timing, and hoping the fireball does not change direction when you are in mid-air! On Crazy Kong on the 25m level you can jump from the first girder on the right hand side off to the right and fall through the floor, thus completing the level very quickly. On Crazy Kong on the 50m level you can drop the first hammer on the right hand edge of the conveyor belt (press jump while holding the hammer). When the hammer disappears you still get points for any pies which hit the spot where you left it. The above is how to play is from Retro Games, here is the Link -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaming Age: Donkey Kong World Record Smashed Brief: Nearly one million points. That's a lot of jumping. Reporter: Tim Lewinson Date: 7/8/2003 The world record for one of history's most revered classic arcade games has fallen. Steve Wiebe of Redmond, Washington, has scored 947,200 points on Donkey Kong, leaving in the dust noted rivals like the legendary Billy Mitchell and Timothy Sczerby of Auburn, NY. "The feat was recorded on videotape so future generations can see how it was done," explains Walter Day, Chief Editor of the forthcoming edition of Twin Galaxies' Official Video Game & Pinball Book of World Records. Wiebe is not a newcomer to video game royalty: last year he became the first player in Twin Galaxies' 23-year-history to pass the one million-point barrier on Donkey Kong Junior. "Donkey Kong was one of the top three most hotly contested titles in arcade history, the other two being Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man," says Robert Mruczek, Chief Referee for Twin Galaxies. Mruczek was the Twin Galaxies employee who viewed Wiebe's 2-hour long videotape in order to verify the legitimacy of the claim to the Donkey Kong title. An extensive analysis of Wiebe's accomplishment, including many scoring milestones, has been prepared by Robert Mruczek and can be found at the link above. -- Tim Lewinson End of Page =========


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Donkey Kong (Arcade) - NEW WORLD RECORD !!

TG Board of Directors

Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 3:36 pm    Post subject: Donkey Kong (Arcade) - NEW WORLD RECORD !!   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
BREAKING NEWS - NEW WORLD RECORD ON DONKEY KONG (ARCADE) 
As reported July 5th, 2003 


Hello fellow gamers: 

One of the most revered classic arcade records has fallen !! On June 30th, 2003, Steve
Wiebe who hails from Redmond, Washington, has done it again. Last year he became the 
first player in Twin Galaxies history to pass the one million-point barrier on "Donkey 
Kong Junior". This year, Steve's focus was on none other than it's venerable predecessor,
"Donkey Kong" itself. The new world record, as verified by Twin Galaxies, now stands
at a lofty 947,200 points. 

I had the pleasure of watching Steve's achievement as captured on videotape, and this
was the first time ever that I had personally witnessed the "kill screen" in action.
Most players have no idea whether "Donkey Kong" actually ends, but let me tell you,
it does when you reach level 22, stage 117 and start with a timer so low that it 
is absolutely impossible to make it up to the top of the screen, let alone the
third girder up. 

In total, there are 116 playable screens that you can complete before reaching the
"kill screen"...level one has two (2) stages, level two has three (3) stages. level
three has four (4) stages, level four has five (5) stages, and levels 6 thru 21 have
six (6) stages each, and of these (not including the "kill screen"), over half are
"barrel" stages. The 117th and final stage (level 22-1, a "barrel" stage) offers 
few opportunities for points...perhaps 400-500 at most, before the timer expires. 

The name "Donkey Kong", when literally translated into colloquial English, roughly
means stupid ape". Well, I beg to differ...this "stupid ape" is tough enough that 
only a small handful of players worldwide are documented in having beaten the game
by reaching the "kill screen". Not so stupid after all, it seems !! 

The game allows you three (3) lives to start and an extra life earned at the 10K
mark, which Steve easily earned. Steve's achievement took nearly 2 hours of game 
play, and although he had lost his third life relatively early in the game, he kept 
things going for a remarkable period of time, reminding gamers everywhere "Never
give up, never say die", classic advice from another "Donkey Kong" master, legendary 
gamer Bill Mitchell. 

Owning the world record on a title such as "Donkey Kong" is quite an achievement, as
the title has not changed hands much over the past few years. Only one other gamer 
in recorded Twin Galaxies history, Bill Mitchell, has simultaneously owned world 
records on both "Donkey Kong" and it's sequel, "Donkey Kong Junior", so Steve is part
of a very elite group of gamers for sure. 

Without further ado, here is the recap of Steve's performance, the finishing points 
at the end of each stage, followed by a few closing thoughts... 

********************************************* 

THE PATH TO VICTORY 

Stage 1-1 - 'Barrel Stage' - 8,400 
Stage 1-2 - 'Rivet Stage' - 13,000 

Stage 2-1 - 'Barrel Stage' - 21,000 
Stage 2-2 - 'Elevator Stage' - 27,000 
Stage 2-3 - 'Rivet Stage' - 33,900 

Stage 3-1 - 'Barrel Stage' - 41,800 
Stage 3-2 - 'Conveyor Belt Stage' - 49,400 
Stage 3-3 - 'Elevator Stage' - 55,900 
Stage 3-4 - 'Rivet Stage' - 63,000 

Stage 4-1 - 'Barrel' - 73,800 
Stage 4-2 - 'Conveyor' - 79,200 
Stage 4-3 - 'Barrel' - 88,600 
Stage 4-4 - 'Elevator' - 94,700 
Stage 4-5 - 'Rivet' - 103,400 

Beginning with Level 5, there are six (6) stages per level, three (3) of which are 
"Barrel Stages". For the benefit of fellow competitors, additional statistics follow
at the end of this recap. 

Stage 5-1 - 'Barrel' - 114,500 
Stage 5-2 - 'Conveyor' - 122,800 
Stage 5-3 - 'Barrel' - 132,800 
Stage 5-4 - 'Elevator' - 139,800 
Stage 5-5 - 'Barrel' - 148,900 
Stage 5-6 - 'Rivet' - 156,800 Level 5 Cumulative Points - 53,400 

Stage 6-1 - 'Barrel' - 166,400 
Stage 6-2 - 'Conveyor' - 174,600 
Stage 6-3 - 'Barrel' - 185,600 
Stage 6-4 - 'Elevator' - 192,400 
Stage 6-5 - 'Barrel' - 202,100 
Stage 6-6 - 'Rivet' - 210,500 Level 6 Cumulative Points - 53,700 

Stage 7-1 - 'Barrel' - 220,900 
Stage 7-2 - 'Conveyor' - 229,300 
Stage 7-3 - 'Barrel' - 238,200 
Stage 7-4 - 'Elevator' - 245,300 
Stage 7-5 - 'Barrel' - 255,200 
Stage 7-6 - 'Rivet' - 262,000 Level 7 Cumulative Points - 51,500 

Stage 8-1 - 'Barrel' - 274,500 
Stage 8-2 - 'Conveyor' - 282,800 
Stage 8-3 - 'Barrel' - 292,700 
Stage 8-4 - 'Elevator' - 299,600 
Stage 8-5 - 'Barrel' - 310,400 
Stage 8-6 - 'Rivet' - 317,700 Level 8 Cumulative Points - 55,700 

Stage 9-1 - 'Barrel' - 326,400 
Stage 9-2 - 'Conveyor' - 333,800 
Stage 9-3 - 'Barrel' - 343,600 
Stage 9-4 - 'Elevator' - 350,400 
Stage 9-5 - 'Barrel' - 360,400 
Stage 9-6 - 'Rivet' - 368,500 Level 9 Cumulative Points - 50,800 

Stage 10-1 - 'Barrel' - 378,400 
Stage 10-2 - 'Conveyor' - 388,300 
Stage 10-3 - 'Barrel' - 398,700 
Stage 10-4 - 'Elevator' - 405,500 
Stage 10-5 - 'Barrel' - 416,300 
Stage 10-6 - 'Rivet' - 424,400 Level 10 Cumulative Points - 55,900 

Stage 11-1 - 'Barrel' - 434,800 
Stage 11-2 - 'Conveyor' - 443,100 
Stage 11-3 - 'Barrel' - 451,600 
Stage 11-4 - 'Elevator' - 457,600 
Stage 11-5 - 'Barrel' - 467,800 
Stage 11-6 - 'Rivet' - 472,100 Level 11 Cumulative Points - 47,700 

Stage 12-1 - 'Barrel' - 482,100 
Stage 12-2 - 'Conveyor' - 490,300 
Stage 12-3 - 'Barrel' - 500,600 
Stage 12-4 - 'Elevator' - 506,800 
Stage 12-5 - 'Barrel' - 516,500 
Stage 12-6 - 'Rivet' - 520,700 Level 12 Cumulative Points - 48,600 

Stage 13-1 - 'Barrel' - 531,700 
Stage 13-2 - 'Conveyor' - 539,800 
Stage 13-3 - 'Barrel' - 548,800 
Stage 13-4 - 'Elevator' - 555,100 
Stage 13-5 - 'Barrel' - 564,300 
Stage 13-6 - 'Rivet' - 571,100 Level 13 Cumulative Points - 50,400 

Stage 14-1 - 'Barrel' - 579,700 
Stage 14-2 - 'Conveyor' - 587,200 
Stage 14-3 - 'Barrel' - 595,800 
Stage 14-4 - 'Elevator' - 602,000 
Stage 14-5 - 'Barrel' - 611,100 
Stage 14-6 - 'Rivet' - 618,900 Level 14 Cumulative Points - 47,800 

Stage 15-1 - 'Barrel' - 627,700 
Stage 15-2 - 'Conveyor' - 636,100 
Stage 15-3 - 'Barrel' - 644,700 
Stage 15-4 - 'Elevator' - 649,700 
Stage 15-5 - 'Barrel' - 658,200 
Stage 15-6 - 'Rivet' - 666,600 Level 15 Cumulative Points - 47,700 

Stage 16-1 - 'Barrel' - 675,300 
Stage 16-2 - 'Conveyor' - 681,600 
Stage 16-3 - 'Barrel' - 690,400 
Stage 16-4 - 'Elevator' - 696,600 
Stage 16-5 - 'Barrel' - 704,400 
Stage 16-6 - 'Rivet' - 712,400 Level 16 Cumulative Points - 45,800 

Stage 17-1 - 'Barrel' - 720,800 
Stage 17-2 - 'Conveyor' - 727,400 
Stage 17-3 - 'Barrel' - 736,100 
Stage 17-4 - 'Elevator' - 742,400 
Stage 17-5 - 'Barrel' - 751,400 
Stage 17-6 - 'Rivet' - 757,800 Level 17 Cumulative Points - 45,400 

Stage 18-1 - 'Barrel' - 766,000 
Stage 18-2 - 'Conveyor' - 774,400 
Stage 18-3 - 'Barrel' - 782,700 
Stage 18-4 - 'Elevator' - 788,400 
Stage 18-5 - 'Barrel' - 797,300 
Stage 18-6 - 'Rivet' - 804,800 Level 18 Cumulative Points - 47,000 

Stage 19-1 - 'Barrel' - 813,100 
Stage 19-2 - 'Conveyor' - 821,500 
Stage 19-3 - 'Barrel' - 829,700 
Stage 19-4 - 'Elevator' - 836,600 
Stage 19-5 - 'Barrel' - 844,900 
Stage 19-6 - 'Rivet' - 853,800 Level 19 Cumulative Points - 49,000 

Stage 20-1 - 'Barrel' - 862,800 
Stage 20-2 - 'Conveyor' - 870,600 
Stage 20-3 - 'Barrel' - 879,400 
Stage 20-4 - 'Elevator' - 885,400 
Stage 20-5 - 'Barrel' - 893,300 
Stage 20-6 - 'Rivet' - 901,000 Level 20 Cumulative Points - 47,200 

Stage 21-1 - 'Barrel' - 909,400 
Stage 21-2 - 'Conveyor' - 913,100 
Stage 21-3 - 'Barrel' - 923,500 
Stage 21-4 - 'Elevator' - 928,800 
Stage 21-5 - 'Barrel' - 938,700 
Stage 21-6 - 'Rivet' - 946,800 Level 21 Cumulative Points - 45,800 

The "kill screen" itself yielded, as expected, only 400 more points, for a finishing
score of 947,200. Steve let out a hearty "All Right !!" after the final life was lost
and the new world record was now a reality. He entered his initials into the game
screen, and that was the last step...he was now the best in the world at "Donkey
Kong" !! 

He next took the time to pan the video camera over the unit to show that an actual
arcade upright was being used, and zoomed in for a close-up on the score. "There 
you have it...947..." he said, trailing off a bit, as there was no reason to say "947
thousand"...we all know what he meant. "Okay, that's it. I'll try for a million...I
know I can do it, but..." and his thoughts trail off, as either the fact that he set
a new world record was still being absorbed, or the premise of doing it again AND
scoring an additional 53K was too daunting to consider right now. He continues with
"...anyway, I don't know if Billy (Mitchell) already has a score in the 950K range, 
but hopefully I can still get better. Well, I'll keep playing. See ya, guys !!" and
he cuts off the taping. 

And there were many moments of excitement that happened during Steve's performance.
My apologies that I am listing them afterwards, but in order to obtain the extra 
statistics using EXCEL that I will present you with later, it was not possible for
me to have the text alongside the points-per-level. So here goes... 

TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS 

(8-1) Steve's first loss of a man occurred on stage (8-1) at 263,900 points when he
was caught by a fireball at the lower right corner while using the hammer. The timer
expired for the hammer and the fireball caught him. 

(8-6) He had major problems this stage with the fireballs and became trapped near 
the top left, losing his second life at 331,500 points...still a great game in progress
and with one life in reserve. 

(10-2) was incredibly tough...all but one of the fireballs chased Steve to the lowest 
level and he tried valiantly to escape. With a few seconds left, and opening presented
itself (barely) and he managed to get to the top left ladder by 100 on the timer, but
at that precise instant the ladder reversed directions, and Steve lost his 3rd life 
while on the ladder at 380,100 points...a long way from the kill screen...over 70 
screens, in fact. Nonetheless, Steve continued against all odds. 

(11-5) Steve passed the 60-minute mark with 458,000 points even. 

(11-6) One of the many "Do-or-Die" moments Steve faced this game…he was forced
to jump over a moving fireball to get the top hammer, and as all "Donkey Kong" players 
know, it is not a maneuver with a 100% success rate. Taking the moment in stride, Steve 
pressed on. 

(13-1) Steve slightly switches strategies on this stage, taking a few less risks and in 
the process sacrificing potential points, perhaps because he's on his last life. 

(13-2) For the first time this game, Steve makes use of the central hammer located on 
the lower conveyor belt due to another "Do-or-Die" situation, this time faced with a
hoard of relentless fireballs hot on his tail (pun intended). 

(14-6) Use of the topmost hammer was denied to Steve due to a very protective fireball
hovering directly beneath it almost the entire last half of the stage. So be it…
that was one less fireball to avoid, so he ignored the potential points and went for a
clean stage finish. 

(15-3) "Donkey Kong" is getting quite aggressive now…Steve is almost nailed, twice,
by wildly thrown barrels near the top left section, a very dangerous section as "Donkey 
Kong" chucks one barrel at an angle, and Steve barely managed to avoid it, and almost
immediately drops another straight down. Undaunted, Steve continued to finish this wave. 

(15-4) Steve must have been feeling the pressure now as he aborted two attempts to 
climb the top ladder. As all expert "Donkey Kong" players know, once you commit to 
climbing up the ladder at these levels in the game, you either make it, or you die 
trying. Fortunately, the third time was a charm and Steve went for it...and made it. 

(16-2) Faced with almost all the fireballs on the the top level, Steve's first choice
of reaching the top via the upper right ladder was looking less and less possible 
as the timer kept counting down, so he made a decision to abort and try the left side
with the time remaining. He ended up reaching the top with the timer at "300", which
was cutting it close. 

(17-6) This was perhaps Steve's toughest challenge this game, in my opinion, and also 
the one where a huge bit of luck definitely came into play. The fireballs were 
relentlessly chasing him, and blocking off all staircases and the hammers. In total,
Steve jumped over two (2) fireballs this stage and not only that, but he was almost 
singed by a fireball when finally getting the upper level hammer. I have to imagine 
that Steve breathed a sigh of relief when this stage was completed !! 

(18-2) Compared to the previous level's "Conveyor Belt" stage, this one was a relative
cakewalk. Steve cruised to completion with ease. 

(19-2) Another virtual cakewalk unlike (17-2). Steve was getting close to a "kill
screen" but still had over a dozen stages to go, so he resumed concentration and went 
onto the next "Barrel Stage". After all, anything can still happen !! 

(20-2) Another "Do-or-Die" moment of desperation as Steve is forced to get the hammer
on the lower level conveyor belt and take out the nearby fireballs in hot pursuit.
But he still had a lot more opposition to deal with once he reached the mid-right
ledge. He was trapped by one fireball to the left, dancing on the central ledge, and
two more were directly above him on the upper level conveyor belt on the right side.
I can imagine how Steve must have felt now, with his previous high score approx 929K,
and so close to a new personal best. He waited it out, and the two fireballs, one 
after another, took the central ladder down, and that's when Steve made his move 
since the timer was running out. He ended up jumping over a mine car to get to the
upper right ladder, and then it was straight to the top without further opposition.
Definitely not an easy level. 

(20-6) Steve passes the 900K mark, and the level, at 1:47, but not without sweating 
it out a bit more. The upper level hammer was zealously guarded by two fireballs, 
but patience and care prevailed, and the fireballs were eventually dispatched, and
the level completed. Just six (6) more levels to finish and then the "kill screen" 
would come. 

(21-2) In my opinion, the second toughest time Steve had this game, and so close to
the conclusion !! Forced by a fireball chasing him closely, he had to jump a mine 
car on the lower level conveyor belt as part of his means to escape. Although the 
rest of this stage was relatively easy in comparison, "Donkey Kong" experts well 
know the dangers of jumping carts on the lower level. This, fellow gamers, was the 
last of the "Do-or-Die" moments for Steve this game, as it turned out...the rest 
was all up to skill and patience. 

(21-3) Perhaps because his own personal best was 929,700 and the kill screen was
approaching was why Steve got a little aggressive here and scored 10,400 this round,
finishing that much closer to his personal best. And with three whole stages to go 
before the "kill screen", every point would count that much more. 

(21-4) Steve did not fool around this stage…he knew that he would get in the 
vicinity of 5,000 points and his high was just a few points beyond that, so the last
of the "Elevator Stages" was accomplished smoothly, without incident. Onward to a 
new personal best if all went well. 

(21-5) Starting the stage with less than a thousand points from his previous personal
best, and not too far off from a new world record, Steve played this level a bit
aggressively, all things considered, scoring close to 10,000 points and setting a 
new personal best in the process !! 

(21-6) The LAST STAGE before the "kill screen" was here, and in general, "Rivet
Stages" were never to be taken lightly. Steve knows, however, that at most the "kill
screen" will allow for a few hundred points at best, so he makes what points he can 
and then escapes for a moderate bonus, and well over 946K for a new world record. 
And although there is still, technically, one screen that remains to be completed, 
Steve knows that the hard part is over, and all that matters is that he has beaten 
the game, set a new personal best, AND set a new world record, all at the same time. 

Incredibly, Steve carried his last man for 567,100 points !! 

And now for the extra section with statistics that I had promised earlier... 

STATISTICS SECTION 

Based on the assumption that the same point potential exists for each of levels 5
thru 21, as each has the same 6 stages, this data relates to Steve's performance
only during this phase of the game. 

Complete Level Data 
-> The minimum achieved for a completed level during this phase of the game was
45,400 points and set through Level 17 
-> The maximum was 53,700 points adjusting for loss of life, which skews the
statistics, and was achieved for Level 6 
-> Interestingly, Steve achieved 50K or more for each completed Level 6 through 
10, and for the remaining 11 Levels, only once did he break 50K for the completed
level, that one being Level 13 

Barrel Stage Data 
-> The minimum achieved for a completed "Barrel Stage" was 7,800 points, and occurred
in Level 16-5 
-> The maximum achieved was 11,100 points adjusting for loss of life, and occurred 
in Level 5-1 
-> Overall, Steve's average per "Barrel Stage" was approx 9,300 points, adjusted for
loss of life 

Conveyor Belt Stage Data 
-> The minimum achieved for a completed "Conveyor Belt Stage" was 3,700 points, and 
occurred in Level 21-2 
-> The maximum achieved was 8,400 points adjusting for loss of life, and occurred 
twice, in Levels 18-2 & 19-2 
-> Overall, Steve's average per "Conveyor Belt Stage" was approx 7,700 points,
adjusted for loss of life 

Elevator Stage Data 
-> The minimum achieved for a completed "Elevator Stage" was 5,000 points, and
occurred in Level 15-4 
-> The maximum achieved was 7,100 points and was achieved without loss of life 
in Level 7-4 
-> Overall, Steve's average per "Elevator Stage" was approx 6,300 points, adjusted
for loss of life 

Rivet Stage Data-> The minimum achieved for a completed "Rivet Stage" was 4,200 
points, and occurred in Level 12-6. In fact, Steve scored less than 6K only twice 
from stages 5 and on. 
-> The maximum achieved was 8,900 points and was achieved without loss of life in
Level 19-6 
-> Overall, Steve's average per "Rivet Stage" was approx 8,900 points, adjusted 
for loss of life 

Theoretical Maximum 

Assuming the same point potential was possible for each completed level, and each
stage completed within, I was curious just how high would be possible on "Donkey
Kong" using Steve's statistics as a guideline, and the starting point of 103,400 
points after completing stage 4-5, and adding a token 400 points for the "kill 
screen". Here I treat every Level 5 thru 21 identically in both difficulty and 
potential point yield... 

Barrel Stages - I took the maximum points without loss of life (11,100) and multiplied
by 51 (17 Levels at 3 per Level) and came up with 566,100 points 
Conveyor Stages - Taking the maximum without loss of life (8,400) and multiplying by
17 (1 per Level), that comes to 142,800 points 
Elevator Stages - Taking the maximum without loss of life (7,100) and multiplying by
17 (1 per Level), that comes to 120,700 points 
Rivet Stages - Taking the maximum without loss of life (8,900) and multiplying by 17
(1 per Level), that comes to 151,300 points 

Factoring the above data in, it is theoretically possible to achieve at least 1084,700
points...at the very least over a million points. 

I was considering the fact that, on the average, the Level totals for 5 through 10 
averaged 50K while only once from stages 11-21 did Steve reach the 50K mark. However,
for stages 11 through 21... 

-> The maximum "Barrel" score was 11,000 (only 100 less than his Level 5 though 10
maximum) 
-> The maximum "Conveyor Belt" score was identical at 8,400 
-> The maximum "Elevator" score was 6,900 (only 200 less than his Level 5 though 10
maximum) 
-> The maximum "Rivet" score was 8,900 (500 points higher than his Level 5 through 
10 maximum !!) 

Since each "Barrel Stage" occurs three (3) times, that 100 point loss translates to 
a 300 point loss per Level, yet when added to the 200 point loss during the "Elevator" 
stage", this is neatly offset by the 500 point gain during the "Rivet" stage. 

So, just how accurate is my theoretical assessment ? Well, all it guarantees is that
at least a million is possible, but doing so requires a LOT to go right, and judging 
by the many harrowing escapes that Steve faced this game, saying it's theoretically 
possible on paper and actually doing it is a whole different matter. Suffice it to say,
reaching a million is now on Steve's mind. 

******************************************** 

FINAL THOUGHTS 

Incredible. That's the only word that comes into my mind. As a gamer, myself, knowing 
how difficult this game can be, to actually see someone "beat the game" is absolutely 
incredible. Yes, it's been done before, but like a hole in one when you're watching 
golf, it doesn't matter that people have done it before...it's always special each 
and every time. 

As chief referee for the Twin Galaxies Intergalactic Scoreboard, I am very pleased to
know that titles that are over 20 years old still have a very loyal following, and 
that gamers to this day are still trying their very best for personal records, and 
if they are good enough, world records. And unlike the results of an auction of a well
known rare collectible, like a scarce baseball card or famous painting which almost
always reach higher and higher auction prices realized year after year, video game 
world records, much like records in athleticism, become harder and harder to beat
with each and every time a new record is set. Take the world record for the fastest
100M dash, or the fastest mile, or the long jump...these records are most definitely
not broken year after year, but when they are, it is truly a momentous event. 

Congratulations to Steve Wiebe on behalf of the entire staff of the Twin Galaxies 
Intergalactic Scorereboard on a job well done !! 

Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

*******************************************
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

******************************

Last edited by RMRUCZEK on Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:20 pm; edited 1 time in total 
 
       
 
 
Tommi



Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 310

 Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 7:00 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Wow, amazing. Oldies never die! 

Well written too, nice to read, thanks Robert. 

TJT 

(Very picky  , but check out "ELEVATOR stage data" -average/max) 
(No pun intended) 

Last edited by Tommi on Sun Jul 06, 2003 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total 
 
        
 
 
QRS1



Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 758

 Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 7:52 pm    Post subject: RE   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Amazing score! And a good post too Robert! 

QRS
_________________
Deca 2001, 2002 Champion. 
Editor at MARP 
 
       
 
 
MKM
TG Advisor


Joined: 24 Sep 2002
Posts: 1581
Location: $C000 - $CFFF
 Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 9:39 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Steve is now definitely the Donkey Kong master. 

I wonder if he plans to tackle Donkey Kong 3 for a triple crown title!
_________________
Please send me a Private Message to get my email for TG/game questions. 
 
       
 
 
RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 3254
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 9:42 pm    Post subject: Not Sure   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Mike: 

Will ask Steve about the possibility of a trifecta. And glad you all enjoyed the stats. 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------   
lostdog
Guest

 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:57 pm    Post subject: Way to go steve!   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Nice job Steve. One of these days we should get together for lunch again, and maybe 
a game of pool.  

John 
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Crimefighter

Posts: 43

 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:07 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
If I had the time and the patience I'd try for a record or something...but I don't. 
 
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mandm785@juno.com

Posts: 37
Location: Doylestown, PA
 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:09 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey all, 
Dumb question, but did Steve just do this? The reason I ask is I looked at the score
details, on the online scoreboard, and it says it was submitted on March 2, 02. Was 
this a performance of over a year ago? Just made me curious when I saw this. Either 
way GREAT SCORE, congrats Steve!!
_________________
Mark Little 
Spy Hunter arcade world record 
 
NE146
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest

 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:03 pm    Post subject:    
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Damn.. I thought I was good with my 130k score  

Any idea where the score was achieved? He's in Redmond, I'm in Bellevue (about 10
minutes away). I know there's a DK in Seattle (Playtime), in Issaquah (Illusionz), 
But are there any more publically available full-size Donkey Kong machines? Or was 
this done at a private residence (or in the Microsoft campus )  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:19 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone think if it's easier or harder to score higher on the Japanese version of the
game vs. the English version? Or do you think that the level progression doesn't 
amount to a hill of beans when you get to the higher levels  

My thought is that since you get an even distribution of all 4 boards on the Japanese 
version, if the "rivet" level would be considered a "harder" level, then it might
make a difference on the upper stages since you'd get a larger percentage of rivet 
levels to the amount of boards passed on the Japanese version (wheras in the U.S.
version of course you would pass 5 boards before the rivet level comes up). It 
probably doesn't matter.. but it's just a thought.  

Is there a seperate entry for DK scores for the Jap version as opposed to the U.S?..
Maybe I should check first  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hanglyman

Posts: 123
Location: Seattle, WA
 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:48 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Awesome score Steve! 

I'm still trying to crack 300k I always seem to have probs with the random 
thrown barrels, any tips? 

IMO the japanese version is much easier due to the trick of waiting at the top of 
a ladder and not having the barrels come down on you 

I don't think the japanese version is tracked at all 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors

Posts: 3254
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:51 pm    Post subject: Japanese Version...& Date   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello all: 

Two gamers asked questions... 

1st - Twin Galaxies tracks the "canonical ROM" as our worldwide MAME editor classifies 
it, and other than that, no more than "Crazy Kong". We generally do not track multiple
versions of the same title based on the ROMsets...it gets kind of crazy, especially
considering how many a classic title may have. Thus, I am not sure we would track the 
Japanese version. 

2nd - Due to a system bug with the original program, the dates can be a little screwy,
but the scores should be fine. Sorry about that. The new system should prevent that 
from happening again. Due in a month if on target. 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ripper

Posts: 65
Location: Charleston, SC
 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:09 pm    Post subject: Very nice post   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I must say this is a very detailed and nice post! Very nice job! And the score is 
pretty good as well.  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QRS1

Posts: 758
 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:56 pm    Post subject: RE   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The best way is to track the hardest ROMset. I think Mark is doing that in 99% of
the cases. The reason that Crazy kong is tracked too, is that it is not a clone 
of Donkey kong. 

Crazy Kong is much better in my opinion. but of course that is just my personal 
opinion  

QRS
_________________
Deca 2001, 2002 Champion. 
Editor at MARP 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dyancey

Posts: 74
Location: King George, VA, USA: circa 1982
 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:44 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great score! This is my favorite arcade game ever. I've never gotten to the kill
screen though. Was this score set on the old ROMchip where Mario can wait at the 
top of ladders on the barrel screen and nothing will roll down on him(like in the
Japanese version) or the newer ROMchip. This existed early in Donkey Kong history
and was soon modified to the popular version we all play today. I've only had the
pleasure of playing this version a few times as a kid in the early 80's. Either
way, this is a SUPER score and I'm just curious. I really want to see a million 
get broken!!
_________________
Player of Activision games 
Thank you for reading my post! 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Twin Galaxies Forums Forum Index -> Coin-Op Video Games 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
squarefishx2

Posts: 122
Location: Phoenix, AZ
 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:44 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6329 views to this thread (so far) -- 
Donkey Kong (Arcade) - NEW WORLD RECORD !! 

An amazing testiment to an awesome classic game that people love and an amazing 
new record -- congrats. 

best, 
Dan
_________________
"Photography with a Vision" 
www.cooganphoto.com 

www.cooganphoto.com/gravitar 
- dedicated to the 1982 Atari classic video arcade game Gravitar. 
Hints and playing tips with screen captures, etc. included... 

Gravitar 3,652,700 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HermChase
Posts: 95
 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:03 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
squarefishx2 wrote: 
6329 views to this thread (so far) -- 
Donkey Kong (Arcade) - NEW WORLD RECORD !! 

An amazing testiment to an awesome classic game that people love and an amazing
new record -- congrats. 

best, 
Dan 

I was on earlier today, and saw that 60+ guests were on in the "Who is Online?"
section. At one point there were 98, it says. I guess we found where they all
came to. Apparently, a site or two (or 10  ) linked to this thread. Anyone know
what site(s)?  

Back on topic, that is truly an amazing score. And, a nice, 8-page in-depth
analysis, also.  

-------------- 
Chase Hermsen 
 
       
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
stevejwiebe
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 3:16 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's great to see all the interest and I appreciate the support. I personally think 
it's the best game of all time and I'm glad others feel the same. This score was 
achieved just a couple of weeks ago in my garage. The ROMchip is the newer standard
version that does not allow mario to safely hang out on the ladder in the barrel 
stages. As far as random thrown barrels - interestingly enough, these barrels are
most dangerous in levels 2 through 4 where they seem to heat seak and pick up high
speeds. There's so many situations that a generic defense is hard to put in words.
I usually just try to steer the barrel away by moving mario left and right. Then 
when the barrel is right on mario I'll jump to avoid it or move forward and have
it sail overhead (and pray). Sometimes death is ineviteable. The good thing is
that the higher levels (5 and up) do not have such visciously thrown barrels. On 
these levels it's just a matter of knowing donkey kong's tendencies and watching
out for the thrown barrels. The main barrels to watch for are the ones dropped 
around the ladder just under the upper hammer. If the path up the ladder is too
clear, then there's a good chance that donkey kong will drop a barrel in this
zone. Just pause a split second before proceeding up this ladder to make sure 
that a barrel is not thrown. The next danger zone is right under donkey kong 
while hammering. After grabbing the hammer I always hesistate to make sure there
is no barrel dropped on mario. Sometimes I have to back pedal to hit thrown 
barrels. Anyway I've probably gone into much more detail than cared for but I 
enjoy sharing playing tips and information I've gathered over the years. Hope 
this helps. 




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 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 4:41 am    Post subject:    
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i've seen a link on http://telenet.games.be , and this is belgium's most famious 
games-site  (srry for my bad english  ) 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Svha
Guest
 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 5:24 am    Post subject: Linked Sites   
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www.slashdot.org is the answer =P 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
artz

Posts: 485
Location: Spring, TX USA
 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 6:55 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.evilavatar.com 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Guest
Guest
 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:55 am    Post subject: From Blue's News   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I surfed to this site from http://www.bluesnews.com. Congratulations to the new 
master  
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rheenen
Guest

 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:33 am    Post subject: GameGuru linked to it also   
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http://ggmania.com linked to it also today. Congratulations, you make my life seem
futile  
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lostdog
Guest

 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:47 pm    Post subject:    
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NE146 wrote: 
Any idea where the score was achieved? He's in Redmond, I'm in Bellevue (about 10
minutes away). I know there's a DK in Seattle (Playtime), in Issaquah (Illusionz),
But are there any more publically available full-size Donkey Kong machines? Or was
this done at a private residence (or in the Microsoft campus )  

I believe your answer is private residence. When I used to work with Steve in 2001,
he was talking about buying the machine. 

John 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest

 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:36 pm    Post subject:    
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www.gamingage.com also linked   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest

 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:39 pm    Post subject:    
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www.gaming-age.com sorry for the above post it was suppose to have a dash 
 
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chattabox

Guest

 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 4:13 pm    Post subject:    

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u can also get here from the gaming site www.xgn.nu .. very elite gaming ladder 
if anyone plays online gaming 
 
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Guest

 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:49 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Great score! This is my favorite arcade game ever. I've never gotten to the kill
 screen though. Was this score set on the old ROMchip where Mario can wait at the
 top of ladders on the barrel screen and nothing will roll down on him(like in 
 the Japanese version) or the newer ROMchip. This existed early in Donkey Kong 
 history and was soon modified to the popular version we all play today. I've only
 had the pleasure of playing this version a few times as a kid in the early 90's. 
 Either way, this is a SUPER score and I'm just curious. are you going to try tetris
 next steve:?: 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors

Posts: 3254
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:32 pm    Post subject: Another Gamer Asked About DK 3   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Steve: 

At least one gamer thus far is interested in whether you intend to go "Three for
Three" in the Donkey Kong arena and try for "Donkey Kong 3"... http://www.klov.com/
game_detail.php?letter=D&game_id=7611 

Just curious. 

Oh yes, for those that don't know where this link came from, the www.vaps.org site
maintains the "Killer List of Video Games" at http://www.klov.com/ 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
stevejwiebe

Guest
 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:34 pm    Post subject: DK3   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The thought has crossed my mind but to be honest, I've never even played the game
or seen it played. It would be a fun challenge though to try to figure the game 
out with no prior knowledge. I would have to buy the DK3 PCB - maybe someday. The
mario brothers title would be nice to own as well. I've played that game but never
mastered it. For now I think I'll focus on the million dollar mark on DK and then
even try to improve upon the DK Junior record. Then I'll try to get a life... 

Steve 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Twin Galaxies Forums Forum Index -> Coin-Op Video Games 

Guest
 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:40 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I came here from a link on www.Allrpg.com 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alex McCain

Guest
 Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:14 am    Post subject: Great Scoring Run, Batman!   
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Nice! 

BTW, I came here from www.gamespy.com [/url] 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest
 Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:23 pm    Post subject: Great job Steve!   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good to see another world record fall. Good luck going for a million! 

BTW, I linked to this from http://www.planetgamecube.com. 

jon 
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Randood
Guest
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 3:01 pm    Post subject: Good Job   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Came from www.retrogames.com. 

My best: 

dkongjr = 876,000 
dkong = 160,000 
dkong3 = 310,000 

You're record is awe inspiring. I'm going to have to revisit dkong when I get 
home. Great work!!! 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
legoking116
Guest
 Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 4:57 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i got linked here from a gamespy emailing 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest
 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:13 am    Post subject: Re: DK3   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
stevejwiebe wrote: 
I would have to buy the DK3 PCB - maybe someday.  

Steve, I just happen to have an extra working dk3 pcb 
if you're interested pm me 
thanks for the tips 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hanglyman

Posts: 123
Location: Seattle, WA
 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:15 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whoops, I forgot to log on, the above post is from me 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Falkentyne
Guest
 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 7:23 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve, 
My highest score is only about 221,000 and level 7  
How do you pass the elevator stage consistently on Levels 4+ ? 
I always have a lot of trouble  

I know you have to go when one jack drops closest to the center of the base of 
the last ladder, while the jack after it drops as far to the left of Donkey Kong's
feet as possible...is this the only way ? 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
artz

Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 485
Location: Spring, TX USA
 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 7:43 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Falkentyne wrote: 
Steve, 
My highest score is only about 221,000 and level 7  
How do you pass the elevator stage consistently on Levels 4+ ? 
I always have a lot of trouble  

I know you have to go when one jack drops closest to the center of the base of the
last ladder, while the jack after it drops as far to the left of Donkey Kong's feet
as possible...is this the only way ? 

Falkentyne, 

221k is also my high score which I set about a couple of weeks ago. I'm about 99%
sure that what you said about the jacks is correct. It takes split-second decision
making when deciding to go up the ladder. If you happen to start running up the 
ladder when you have 2 consecutive jacks hit farthest right on the top platform,
your only recourse is to run back to the left again at your original starting
position on the top platform. Also, as I did in my 221k game you can just run 
and hope that you are lucky which I was every elevator screen except for 7-4 where
I lost my last man. 

I'm pretty sure Steve would probably say the same thing as there is no pattern 
or indicator (as far as I know) to let you know when the best time to run up
the ladder is.         
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Samarin
Guest
 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 8:49 am    Post subject: Congratulation from Denmark   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Congrats also here from Denmark. Im very impressed. Good luck going for the million. 

I came herr from A danish site www.spilzonen.dk   
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Guest
 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:22 am    Post subject:    
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came here from gamecritics.com.. link was posted yesterday. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest
 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:27 am    Post subject:    
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I came from http://www.shacknews.com 
 
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permafrostrick
Referee

Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1623
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:09 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Falkentyne wrote: 
Steve, 
My highest score is only about 221,000 and level 7  
How do you pass the elevator stage consistently on Levels 4+ ? 
I always have a lot of trouble  

I know you have to go when one jack drops closest to the center of the base of the
last ladder, while the jack after it drops as far to the left of Donkey Kong's feet
as possible...is this the only way ? 

Depends on your approach. I would get up to that top area....then get over to the
left of where you go up the ladder. 

Then knowing the order of the springy things coming out...you make your move to 
the right and up the ladder to end the level. If you are staying over to the 
right so your final move is to the left and up...there isn't quite as much room
in timing to make it up. 

I would need to get into playing it again to get screenshots of the exact spot to
get to before the final move...and when you make it. 

The barrel levels always got me though....never figured out the pattern of when 
the monkey would just toss one....not that great at the level where you run over
beams to remove rivets or whatever those are supposed to be...hehe I actually 
have less trouble with the elevator stage versus the others. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
awesome

Posts: 263
Location: Rochester, NY
 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:19 pm    Post subject: DK   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually I must be the only one that uses an "audio" clue when to go on 4th+
level elevators (well actually used to use it and now am learning the visual
clue). I was talking with Mr. Kuh at Funspot about this last year and he had 
never heard of the audio clue before. It seemed like it used to work 99% of 
the time back in the 80's. Now it seems like it is more like 50% - 60% thus
the reason I am working on the visual clue. My high is just over 400k. I was
fequently finding DK machines with bad sound (or very low volume) and that 
was another reason to learn the visual clue. I once played a 279k game at
Flipper McCoys Arcade in Virginia Beach just by getting lucky (the sound was
completly out and I had not been told of the visual clue yet). 

I would be happy to share the audio clue with anyone. But since the visual 
clue was given to me by someone else that didn't wish me to share the method
further I won't go into detail there. It's not the way you described it but 
you may be looking at the same thing from a different vantage point. The key
is learning to know when to go and while going know when it was NOT the right
time to go. Then you need to come back down the ladder and run right and then
work back to the left side again to give it one more shot.
_________________
Gregory S. Erway 

#1 Tapper TGMS 9,100,175 31May03 
#1 Tapper TGTS 1,821,325 01Jun02 
#1 Rootbeer Tapper TGMS 1,959,200 28Jul86 
#2 Wild Western 826,900 07Jun04 
#2 Pepper II 505,980 13Jun04 
#3 M.A.C.H. 3 - Bomber 353,200 22Mar86 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hanglyman
Posts: 123
Location: Seattle, WA
 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 7:20 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I could be wrong, but there does not seem to be any preset order to the springs. 
getting from the ladder on the right to the yellow pad, is pretty easy, just go on 
any rightmost spring (I watch where they bounce in relation to the yellow pad) 
going for the run up the ladder is the hard part, I go on a spring that bounces 
just to the left of the yellow pad, touching or very close to touching but not 
overlapping onto the pad, you can then watch how far out the next spring goes 
and make the split second decision to keep going or retreat 

I have heard of other methods, like counting springs after the girl yells help 
but have never been able to figure if there is anything to it (I don't think so) 
I am very curious on what methods others use 
Gregory, please share your audio clue 

Stay Hangly 
 
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
permafrostrick
Referee

Posts: 1623
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:13 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you don't need to count....there is a definitely loop in how the strings come
out you can learn....similar to how you have the birds drop down on that DKJr 
level....patterned there also. 

it might not seem patterned to you if you are taking too small of a sample...
but it's there. 

Audio queue is good also....I use audio for assisting when to make a move in 
many games.         
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FirebrandX
Referee

Posts: 477
Location: Denton, TX
 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 6:17 am    Post subject:    
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I had the pleasure of watching Steve's previous record tape (of which I made a
highlight video). One thing I noticed is that the pie stages later on can go bad
in a split-second if the flames decide to get nasty. On the highlight video is
a pie stage where Steve had to pull out all the skills to survive.
_________________
SSX Racing Champion 


Current favorite game: SSX3 
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stevejwiebe
Guest
 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 11:44 am    Post subject: elevator tactics   
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Falkentyne wrote: 
Steve, 
My highest score is only about 221,000 and level 7  
How do you pass the elevator stage consistently on Levels 4+ ? 
I always have a lot of trouble  

I know you have to go when one jack drops closest to the center of the base of
the last ladder, while the jack after it drops as far to the left of Donkey Kong's
feet as possible...is this the only way ? 

You are correct and other players as well. I don't know of any brain dead scheme 
to get up the ladder and it wouldn't be any fun if there was. Not saying there isn't
one, but I haven't found one. I have gone up successfully by running from the right 
but I prefer running from the left. There is a way to clear consistently with no
reliance on luck, but it does take decision making based on knowledge and experience.
To get the best jump, you start up the ladder (running from the left) when you see
a spring hit furthest most right (or at least the center of the gold frame of the
leftmost elevator). Start running at the instant the spring hits the platform the 
2nd time. As you make your way up the ladder you will have to judge whether the
spring will hit you based on its position as you begin ascent. This is a split 
second decision. If you can see that it hit leftmost when first appearing on the
screen (and you got a good jump) then you will make it every time. I'm usually 
focused on the ladder so I don't see exactly where the spring hits, but I can 
tell in my peripheral vision if it will nail me by how close behind it is. It’s
like pulling out into traffic. You know if you have the room and time based on 
the oncoming car’s speed and position. If I think it has any chance of hitting 
me, I retreat and try again. Even if I’m partway up the ladder there is still 
ample time to go back down and to the left starting point. With practice and 
experience, you will get the feel and will never be killed again on the elevators
or your money back . Next time you play, on the level 4 elevator stage use all
your men and practice getting up the final ladder using this approach. If you 
die, make a mental note (or study video tape) of where the spring was in your 
peripheral vision as you ascended. If you succeed also make a mental note but 
don't clear the screen and go back down and try again. Repeat until all men have
expired for several games. Eventually with enough practice you will create a 
mental image of where the oncoming spring should be in order for you to easily 
clear. Soon it will be obvious when you will clear or when you will die. There 
still may be times when you know it's too close for comfort so you may want to 
retreat just to make sure. There is no reason to ever die and you can't afford 
to die on elevators if going for a high score. You have to save lives for when 
you're screwed on pies or rivets. I’ve never searched for a pattern or an audio 
clue. What I’ve found is that there are a handful of frequently occurring bonus 
times when I clear (which suggests a pattern). But I wouldn’t rely on bonus times,
patterns or audio clues of when to go. Use the fail-safe approach above and it 
will work 100% guaranteed. If it doesn't then you've misjudged the oncoming spring.
I hope this makes sense and good luck. 

Steve 
 
     
 
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conspiracy_steve_885900
Posts: 145

 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 10:24 am    Post subject: spring   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well, i have played my good share of donkey kong for the arcade, and for both
the NES and Arcade game, i use on stratigy on later levels, to get to the top 
of the ladder, wait at the bottom of the first spot on the right side, (remeber
this is what i do, it would be best to follow steve's help) right as you see it
pass, jump, somtimes i get so close when i jump i score 100 points. , the only
good help i can give you for this stage is at the VERY top, when you see the 
spring comeing, wait untill its gone over you, then run behind the ladder, just
barly touching it, then wait until the spring touches the ladder, instanly after 
it touches it and lifts off, go over and climb(when your that close, you should
only have to press over untill jumpman is looking the other way) thats the best 

i can help you with the arcade version, but the NES one is a diffrent story,
i can help you with that.
_________________
Donkey Kong (NES) 3rd place Record Holder 
Steve "TEK" Pierson 
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Krayd

Posts: 118
Location: Surrey, BC
 Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:00 pm    Post subject:    
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Congrats Steve Wiebe on your Donkey Kong WR. I know I'm a little late, but I did
see you on the news (I think it was on Q13). Not all of us get to make a TV
appearence for our records, so, congrats on that too.
_________________
GTA: Vice City WR Completion Time - 3 hours 59 min 3 sec ( 03:59:03 ). 
Fastest GTA III Completion Time - 1 hour 51 min 48 sec ( 01:51:48 ). 
Currently working on: BOUNTIES!GTA III 
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RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors

Posts: 3254
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:22 pm    Post subject: Steve Made the Big Times Now !!   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello all: 

Check out this link and let me know what you think of it... 

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/
display?slug=donkeykong15e&date=20030715&query=donkey+kong 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
 
       
 
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artz

Posts: 485
Location: Spring, TX USA
 Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 10:56 pm    Post subject:    
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Great find Robert. I love reading stuff like this.       
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RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors

Posts: 3254
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:06 am    Post subject: But the BEST Part was...   
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Hi Artz: 

I know you liked the article, but I personally enjoyed chatting with Lisa Heyamoto 
from the Seattle Times who wrote the article...she's a sweetie !! 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
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Eternal

Posts: 59
Location: New Brunswick, NJ
 Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:35 am    Post subject: Re: Steve Made the Big 
 Times Now !!   
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RMRUCZEK wrote: 

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?
slug=donkeykong15e&date=20030715&query=donkey+kong 
 
> Mitchell, 37, says he only counts his scores if they're played in a public 
> venue, and he won't say if he's able to best his cross-country 
> competitor. He'll only say that he's planning something big and 
> unprecedented in the video-game world as a response to Wiebe's win. 

Okay - what's he planning?
_________________
Chris Long, Departments of Mathematics & Statistics, Rutgers University 

WARNING - HIGH SPIN SPEEDS - DO NOT put any person in this washer. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors

Posts: 3254
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:16 pm    Post subject: That's the BIG Mystery !!   
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Chris: 

Bill's plans are his own...I know that when a gamer of Bill's calibre and history
of gaming accomplishments says he's planning on something "big", then we're talking
HUGE...if Bill said "big", that's gotta be an understatement for sure !! 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
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Guest
 Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:23 pm    Post subject:    
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I believe if he says big it will be BIG, 
but he's been saying that for over a year now has'nt he? 
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RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors

Posts: 3254
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:04 pm    Post subject: Correct   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Guest: 

True, but when he's ready to do what he set out to, I'm sure it will be worth 
the wait !! 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
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QRS1

Posts: 758

 Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:33 pm    Post subject: RE   
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1 year? I think it is almost 3 years since I heard him talking about "riding
away" in the sunset after something big game related he was planning to do  

I amire that guy for his achievments and he is a true pro gamer! I will judge
this thing when I see it though. Until then it is like a non verified recordings
sent to TG - Just talk  

Note:This has nothing to do with Mitchell in personal. It is just my general
opinion about things like this. I wait until I see it before I specualte about it  

QRS
_________________
Deca 2001, 2002 Champion. 
Editor at MARP       
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squarefishx2

Posts: 122
Location: Phoenix, AZ
 Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:15 pm    Post subject:    
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Maybe he's gonna set the game on fire and play it to a new world record as it burns 

-- like Jerry Lee Lewis set his piano on fire. 
hehehe  

best, 
Dan
_________________
"Photography with a Vision" 
www.cooganphoto.com 

www.cooganphoto.com/gravitar 
- dedicated to the 1982 Atari classic video arcade game Gravitar. 
Hints and playing tips with screen captures, etc. included... 

Gravitar 3,652,700      
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
permafrostrick
Referee

Posts: 1623
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:58 pm    Post subject: Re: RE   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QRS1 wrote: 
1 year? I think it is almost 3 years since I heard him talking about "riding
away" in the sunset after something big game related he was planning to do  

I often wonder how a player like Billy Mitchell would stand up at something 
like MARP. It would be interesting to see just how good he is at various games
in MAME. 

As we know playing many games in MAME generally is a little harder than on the
arcade system cuz of control issues etc. 

I always wondered if Billy's gaming skill was limited to just 5-10 games or 
if he could just play games he rarely has played and within a few days master
most and submit very high scores for them. 

There are definitely a few gamers at MARP I would put at Billy's level of a
gamer or even higher. Others have equalled or surpassed Billy's records.
Billy has just gotten the limelight from correctly timing doing things and
being the first officially recognized as accomplishing certain things for
games....and making sure people notice what he is up to before even doing 
it...so when it is done all that pre-hoopla pays off. 

Something "big" to me would be if he just enters one of the PGL tournaments 
and beats the crap out of Fatal1ty. No one has been able to beat Fatal1ty 
the past couple of years...so for Billy...not even known for playing those 
games...just shows up and shows everybody up...that would be huge....bigger
than anything you could do with an arcade game. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------  
RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors
Posts: 3254
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:31 am    Post subject: Now THAT Would be Something !!   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Rick: 

Yes, seeing Bill, or any other legendary gamer, taking on "FatalIty"and giving
him a run for his money...that's what gaming legends are made out of !! Don't 
be surprised if down the road perhaps a Steve Krogman, Darren Harris, Todd Rogers, 
Dwayne Richard, Donald Hayes or Bill Mitchell decides to throw their hand into 
the 1st person ring. And rumor has it that our own Ron Corcoran's more than a 
fair 1st person player at titles such as "Doom" and others. 

And let's not forget the modern-day warriors such as Martin Bedard, Wolff & Mike
Morrow, Matthew Leto. All are masterful "Doom 64" players, and skill transferral
to a game like the "Quake" or Unreal" series might not be that bad for them. Any 
one of these guys has more than fair shot. 

I'll tell you this...if a TG player were to pull off an achievement like that...
that would be SO AWESOME that words cannot describe !! And I would certainly 
promote the heck out of it. 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
permafrostrick
Referee

Posts: 1623
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:43 am    Post subject: Re: Now THAT Would be 
 Something !!   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RMRUCZEK wrote: 
Don't be surprised if down the road perhaps a Steve Krogman, Darren Harris, Todd
Rogers, Dwayne Richard, Donald Hayes or Bill Mitchell decides to throw their hand 
into the 1st person ring. And rumor has it that our own Ron Corcoran's more than
a fair 1st person player at titles such as "Doom" and others. 

I was into FPS games big for a few years...mainly the quake series. 

At one point...even though sort of handicapped from playing on a mac with lower 
frame rate performance than most have...I was holding my own quite well online. 

Back in Quakeworld times I had gotten to the level where I was included in some
practice scrimmages with clans like r3v(Revolution) and DR(Death Row). I even 
got to play a few times with Thresh and Diehard who were a couple of the big 
names back in QW times. 

I played some Q2...but just casually at public servers and never got into the 
clan thing. this largely was basic by the time Quake 2 was out for mac...it was 
too late to really get in the competition at a serious level. 

I then played Q3A for about 1.5 years. I got quite good at that and was really
limited by my hardware as maps got more complex and later versions of Q3A had 
higher CPU requirements. 

I got to play makaveli a couple times online 1-on-1. He was simply amazing. He 
was the dominate player before Fatal1ty arrived on the scene. 

1 player I often played online was on a mac also.... I could easily beat him. 
A typical 10 or 15 minute 1-on-1 match would end 10-2 type score. Then he got 
a PC and I was never able to beat him again. He was instantly beating me 10-2 
type scores. The frame rates make that big of a difference. A month later he 
entered a Pro event and got past the early rounds and ended up finishing 16th.
That made me realize my hardware was limiting me a lot more than I was even 
thinking it was...so I "retired" from playing seriously....still played some 
but only casually. 

In hindsight if I was to do it over again I would have gotten a good PC that
would allow me to compete at an even level at least hardware wise....cuz when 
you are only getting 60fps and drop to 20-25 fps in certain areas of the map 
that drop in frame rate really throws off timing and smoothness of mouse looking
for aiming etc...versus PC players that were getting 50-60+ fps in those same 
areas. That makes a huge difference. 

I stopped playing FPS games and haven't played any online for the past 1.5 years
now. I have generally lost interest in those games as well. 
Playing them for on average an hour or 2 everyday for 3-4 years was enough. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MKM
TG Advisor
Posts: 1581
Location: $C000 - $CFFF
 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:50 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think its very likely that any of us would beat John Wendell ("fatal1ty")
at an FPS game. 

This guy lives for nothing but competing at FPS games. I have talked with him 
in private emails, and these are the only types of games that he plays. He spends
an average of 12 hours per day of practice to get ready for tournaments. 

The rest of us are simply just too far behind him in experience. Not Billy, Todd,
myself, or any of the rest that Robert mentioned would ever get much more than 
friendly match frags, and even this would take being able to exclusively play
John for weeks before scoring any successful frags. 

Beat him in a tournament? No way. You can put money on it.
_________________
Please send me a Private Message to get my email for TG/game questions. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
conspiracy_steve_885900

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:28 am    Post subject: I WANT MY MTV!!!!   
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wasnt fatal1ty on MTV, the show called im a gamer. i watched that like 10 times,
and thanks to that show, i found twin galaxies.
_________________
Donkey Kong (NES) 3rd place Record Holder 
Steve "TEK" Pierson 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
permafrostrick
Referee

Posts: 1623
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:36 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MKM wrote: 
This guy lives for nothing but competing at FPS games. I have talked with him 
in private emails, and these are the only types of games that he plays. He 
spends an average of 12 hours per day of practice to get ready for tournaments. 

of course...but that is why I said that would be incredible if Billy just showed
up at some tournament and showed everyone up including Fatal1ty. 

That would be a nice way to come in..do that...then retire from playing forever 
as Billy has indicated his "stunt" will achieve. Right now that's really about
the only thing he could do where if done I could do nothing but applaud him as
he walks away into the sunset. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FirebrandX
Referee

Location: Denton, TX
 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:21 am    Post subject:    
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
permafrostrick wrote: 

of course...but that is why I said that would be incredible if Billy just showed
up at some tournament and showed everyone up including Fatal1ty. 

Odds of that happening are about as good as me beating Kasparov at a game of 
chess. Not going to happen, like, ever.
_________________
SSX Racing Champion 

Current favorite game: SSX3 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
permafrostrick
Referee

Posts: 1623
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:26 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 FirebrandX wrote: 
Odds of that happening are about as good as me beating Kasparov at a game of 
chess. Not going to happen, like, ever. 

Sure it could happen...just wait until he is half senile then play him and win...
then you can say you beat Kasparov. hehe 

That is pretty cool you have even had contact with gamers like Kasparov. 

Ever been in contact with Bobby Fischer? Has anyone since he disappeared yet again
like 5-7 years ago? hehe 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mikezav
Guest
 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:46 am    Post subject: And I thougt I was the 
 Shiz for my 200K :-)   
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Good job Steve. Donkey Kong is cool. 
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The_Pro

Location: Saint-Lazare, Quebec, Canada
 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:12 pm    Post subject:    
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I used to play quake2 online for massive amounts of time. At some point during 
the lull in N64 games I was doing 8+ hours per day. I eventually lost interest
because I had pushed my control scheme to the limit. 

What control setup was I using? Keyboard only, one strafe button, a and z for 
vertical look... don't look at me  

Yes, I know that control setup is awful for quake games but I had spent so much
time getting used to Doom on the keyboard that this was just a logical extention.
Everytime I started praticing with the mouse I was so disgusted by my lack of
skill that I went back to keys and emptied the server. 

With the keyboard I was somewhere between above average and sub-elite. I could
definatly own anyone with the same setup but a skilled mouse player could always
win the day unless I got the drop on him.
_________________
Martin Bedard 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Genocidal
Guest
 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:24 pm    Post subject: FataIty?   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who the hell is FatalIty? There's no way he's the best fps gamer in the world. 
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D2E
Guest
 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:37 pm    Post subject: Kill screen TIMER??   
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What does the timer start out at on the Kill Screen?? 

Can I Get a geek-a-hoy! 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FirebrandX
Referee
Location: Denton, TX
 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: FataIty?   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Genocidal wrote: 
Who the hell is FatalIty? There's no way he's the best fps gamer in the world. 

Yes he is. It's been proven time and again in dozens of contests. I remember in
one tournament, he took on the European champion and absolutely smoked him like
he was a beginner. Everyone who's ever faced him, including other champions have
said he is quite simply the world's best by far. 

You should have watched that MTV special on him. They had gamers similar to Martin,
who spent 8+ hours a day playing, come over to try and topple him at a friend's 
apartment. Not only did EVERY ONE of them fail, but they all got completely blasted 
off the arena like they were nothing to him. Their comments were something to the 
effect of "OMG, this guy is amazing!!"
_________________
SSX Racing Champion 

Current favorite game: SSX3 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Tommi

 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:16 pm    Post subject:    
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permafrostrick wrote: 

Ever been in contact with Bobby Fischer? Has anyone since he disappeared yet 
again like 5-7 years ago? hehe 

You like attacking game, watch hes inps ;o) Your mind will be blown away! 
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permafrostrick
Referee

Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:41 am    Post subject:    
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The_Pro wrote: 
What control setup was I using? Keyboard only, one strafe button, a and z for 
vertical look... don't look at me  

How on earth you could play it for 8 hours a day without using mlooking(mouse 
looking.aiming for those not familar with FPS games)? 

I know I would have own3d j00 though.  

There were some players good enough with just keys to play through the single 
player or play bots without much of a problem but online? Perhaps could hold
your own at public servers with average skill players...but that's about it. 

mlooking would have taken you to a new level if you just gave yourself a few 
days to get used to it. You mainly have to just get the sensitivity adjustments
setup right so it's comfortable to you...then as you get used to it odds are 
you would be adjusting it more. 

It's impossible to have the control just using keys for looking and aiming 
versus using a mouse.  
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
FirebrandX
Referee

Location: Denton, TX
 Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 3:05 am    Post subject:    
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permafrostrick wrote: 

Ever been in contact with Bobby Fischer? Has anyone since he disappeared yet
again like 5-7 years ago? hehe 

I've not personally been in contact with him except through email. I personally
don't like his beliefs and racism, so I don't really go chasing after him. If
I recall, he is living in Japan currently. 

He is in fact quite insane and should have been given professional help long ago.
_________________
SSX Racing Champion 


Current favorite game: SSX3 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Genocidal
Guest
 Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:11 am    Post subject: FatalIty   
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Ok, explain who FatalIty is and wot fps games ur talking about..... 
 
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FirebrandX
Referee

Location: Denton, TX
 Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:56 am    Post subject:    
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Well I'm not his personal agent, so I don't feel I should have to expend so much
energy to explain or defend him. Look him up on the internet. He has his own
web site. 

All I can say is trust me on this one. The guy is for real.
_________________
SSX Racing Champion 


Current favorite game: SSX3 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
permafrostrick
Referee

Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 2:55 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 genocidal, just do a google search for him. I'm sure tons will show up. 

If you check the pro gaming circuit you will see he has been the dominate 
player the past couple of years. 

http://www.thecpl.com/gamers/ 

See Johnathan Wendel Interview.... that's Fatal1ty. I'm sure if you look around 
the site and find recent CPL events etc. you will see Fatal1ty's name a lot. 

All the various games he has played I'm not sure of...but for any game he has
decided to take on...even if he starts playing it several months after others 
have been playing...he quickly gets to the top where no one can beat him. 

Half Life CS, Q3A, and very recently UT2k3 are at least 3 FPS games where he
is considered unbeatable when he enters tournaments ready to compete for those
games. 

In short he has won about $150,000+ in just the past year at gaming tournaments. 

Many say that's crazy..including champions from other countries and continents...
and challenge him...only to get easily defeated. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The_Pro

Location: Saint-Lazare, Quebec, Canada
 Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 9:42 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
permafrostrick wrote: 
How on earth you could play it for 8 hours a day without using mlooking(mouse 
looking.aiming for those not familar with FPS games)? 

I know I would have own3d j00 though.  

There were some players good enough with just keys to play through the single
player or play bots without much of a problem but online? Perhaps could hold 
your own at public servers with average skill players...but that's about it. 

mlooking would have taken you to a new level if you just gave yourself a few
days to get used to it. You mainly have to just get the sensitivity adjustments 
setup right so it's comfortable to you...then as you get used to it odds are
you would be adjusting it more. 

It's impossible to have the control just using keys for looking and aiming 
versus using a mouse. 

Yeah, you probably would have owned me . 

Playing keys is definatly different from mlook. You tend to develop a much
different skillset early on. Instead on focus on aim and long distance shots
it was more a game of strategy, misdirection and prediction. Since I couldn't
go toe to toe with high level players I had to outsmart them. 

I can never aim or track as well as a mouse player but at my peak I could do 
some pretty impressive things for keys only. I was quite accurate for many 
angled rail shots and would regularly shoot rockets at peoples feet while 
jumping, a given for mousers but you have to be quick with keys. Could do a
lot of trick jumping too. Was regularly accused of being a bot too which made
me feel good all over  

Would surely take me more than a few days to reach the same level with mlook,
I estimate a week just because i'm so hard wired into my old scheme. 

It's on my to-do list .
_________________
Martin Bedard 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FirebrandX
Referee

Location: Denton, TX
 Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 12:13 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, Martin and I both were that way. I was that way because I started off 
using a controller for PSX Doom. I got so good that the "anticipated shot" that
aiming was never done in the same way mouse-look is. 

However, when I started PC-FPS playing, I quickly adapted to mouse-look and 
actually prefer it to directional shooting. A fast optical mouse mastered to 
perfection will always be faster than keyboard shooting. Even worse is the trackball
nuts. I once proved a point to some friends who were trackball nuts. We created 
a program that times how fast you can click 4 check boxes in each corner of the 
screen. They used trackball (which they had mastered), while I used a mouse. I 
beat them every time because all I had to do was jerk my arm as fast as I could
to the 4 corners and click each box. They had to manually move their thumbs as
fast as they could, which proved much slower than a mouse.
_________________
SSX Racing Champion 


Current favorite game: SSX3 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
The_Pro

Location: Saint-Lazare, Quebec, Canada
 Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 1:45 am    Post subject:    
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Trackball? Now that's scary. To each his own I guess.
_________________
Martin Bedard 
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guest
Guest
 Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:39 pm    Post subject: donkey kong   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, is there any way we can watch the video of the donkey kong world record?     
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stevewiebe
Guest
 Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: donkey kong   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
guest wrote: 
So, is there any way we can watch the video of the donkey kong world record? 

Yes. You can obtain your own copy of the world record Donkey Kong game in its 
entirety at the following website. Thanks for visiting. 

http://donkeykongcam.com 

Steve Wiebe 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tommi

Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 310

 Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 8:05 pm    Post subject:    
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 Late night with Conan O' Brien: 

"In Seattle a man broke a world record, when scored allmost a one million points 
in the videogame Donkey Kong (applauds!!! Donkey Kong, isn't that amazing, ya)
..........As hes prize the man will get a trip to hes favourite plase of the 
world...........1986"  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:56 pm    Post subject: For Real ?   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Tommi: 

Is this for real...the DK score made "Conan" ? Unbelievable !! 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors

Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:10 pm    Post subject: Day ??   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Tommi: 

Walter Day himself is asking on what exact day was the comment made on 
"Conan"...he'd like to get a copy if at all possible. 

Thanks !! 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The_Pro

Location: Saint-Lazare, Quebec, Canada
 Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:19 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If that comment was last friday, then it should air again this friday (or rather 
saturday morning) at around 3 AM. That's how it works in my area anyway.
_________________
Martin Bedard 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
permafrostrick
Referee
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:32 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yep..same here....replays a week later but at 3 am. 

I'm guessing that's NBC programming so all NBC channels are showing those 
replays....not an affiliate's choice. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Tommi
 Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 6:19 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It came out yesterday in Finland. I suspect they do show these little later
compared to USA though. It was show with...at least there was Andy Roddick 
in the show. Keep your vcr's ready! 

TJT 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Mr_Kelly_R_Flewin
Referee
Location: Somewhere, over the Rainbow
 Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:09 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tommi wrote: 
Late night with Conan O' Brien: 

"In Seattle a man broke a world record, when scored allmost a one million points 
in the videogame Donkey Kong (applauds!!! Donkey Kong, isn't that amazing, ya)
..........As hes prize the man will get a trip to hes favourite plase of the
world...........1986"  

[snickers] Now that's something I definitely wanna see.. too bad my vcr borked 
Ah well time to hunt the P2P's... 

and on another note, regarding that DKCam site.. no offence.. but that's 
absolutely sad selling the recording... I mean sure it's history and all.. but 
considering all the publicity and such being recieved as it is... [shakes head]...
it's a fantastic feat.. just don't agree with selling it off for cash like this... 

Mr. Kelly R. Flewin 

Ps: Please don't reply to this, as though your entitled to your own opinion, 
I stand steadfast upon this issue and we need not have a war here.. a PM would 
be better though...
_________________
Your Official Twin Galaxies NES Referee 
My email for TG Purposes: [available upon request] 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
permafrostrick
Referee

Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:32 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well, it wasn't Friday's show of Conan. As most here know Conan plays on Comedy 
Central as well. 

I was home for lunch and Comedy Central was showing friday's show and I heard 
no mention of DK. 

Was it in his monologue at the start of the show? 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tommi

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:29 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, it was in monologue. But hey, all he said is all I wrote. So just imagine 
Conan trying to look cool wawing hes hands saying that... and you're there. 

I have nothing against selling video for 10 bucks. Maybe I start selling my 
MAME inps now  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tommi
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Donkey Kong (Arcade) -
 NEW WORLD RECORD !!   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RMRUCZEK wrote: 

Elevator Stage Data 
-> The minimum achieved for a completed "Elevator Stage" was 5,000 points, and
occurred in Level 15-4 
-> The maximum achieved was 7,100 points and was achieved without loss of
life in Level 7-4 
-> Overall, Steve's average per "Elevator Stage" was approx 9,300 points, 
adjusted for loss of life 
 
I cannot believe nobody commented this, even though I pointed this out at first
reply in this thread. 

How come average is higher than maximum?  

Maybe people really don't read so carefully. Am I one in 32 000  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors

Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:24 pm    Post subject: Now THAT Was a Typo !!   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Tommi: 

That was entirely me...I just re-checked and the average was approx 6,300...here's 
the data from levels 5 thru 21... 

5 - 7000 
6 - 6800 
7 - 7100 
8 - 6900 
9 - 6800 
10 - 6800 
11 - 6000 
12 - 6200 
13 - 6300 
14 - 6200 
15 - 5000 
16 - 6200 
17 - 6300 
18 - 5700 
19 - 6900 
20 - 6000 
21 - 5300 

Average was 6323 points. 

My sincere apologies for the typo. I put quite a bit into this article, approx 3 hours,
and this one slipped thru the cracks. 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tommi
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:38 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Haha, no harm done. I was just showing off that I really read your article carefully  

TJT 
7:47 -100m 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bondo

Location: weare,nh
 Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:50 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tommy, that's your time in track n field``` MAN THAT'S BLISTERING FAST Donald 
told me about you on this game and others!!! so I should'nt be that surprised GOOD WORK 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FirebrandX
Referee

Location: Denton, TX
 Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 11:30 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr_Kelly_R_Flewin wrote: 

Ps: Please don't reply to this, as though your entitled to your own opinion,
I stand steadfast upon this issue and we need not have a war here.. a PM would
be better though... 

Then don't post it if you don't want to debate it. It's unfair to allow yourself
the public statement and the ask others to not state theirs. If you only want a PM,
then you should have only done a PM.
_________________
SSX Racing Champion 


Current favorite game: SSX3 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mooncastle
Guest
Post subject: cash for DVD   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Give me a break Mr_Kelly_R_Flewin, I FOR ONE WANT TO SEE THIS GAME!! Hmm, perhaps
Steve should GIVE you one free!! I mean 9.95 !!??, yeah, he's going to buy that
Rolls he's been eyeing, please!!, how else can the curious see this? keep on 
rocking Steve, I sent Paypal today and put me on your list when you hit a million,
I wonder how much Mr_Kelly_R_Flewin figures the hundreds of man hours you logged
to excite the gaming world with this kind of score is worth.. 
M 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
MKM
TG Advisor

Location: $C000 - $CFFF
 Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:08 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have absolutely no problem with Steve trying to make a little (and maybe a lot)
of cash from his abilities. This is how capitalism works. You have a skill or 
talent.... you sell that skill or talent.
_________________
Please send me a Private Message to get my email for TG/game questions. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest
 Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 10:33 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know this post is a little old, but a major congrats. on quite an accomplishment.
Also, $10 is a nice bargain for a DVD (thanks for offering it). 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QRS1
 Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 10:58 pm    Post subject: RE   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, everyone has the right to do what they want with their recordings. Sell 
them etc. I can afford to buy it, but I wont do it. Why? Cause I Don´t like the
idea of selling recordings. It doesn´t matter how many hours you play a game 
etc. Just my opinion, and I respect Steves and others opinions. 

btw, who said that this has to be capitalism involved in this issue? :=) 

QRS
_________________
Deca 2001, 2002 Champion. 
Editor at MARP 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MKM
TG Advisor
Location: $C000 - $CFFF
 Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:04 pm    Post subject: Re: RE   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QRS1 wrote: 

btw, who said that this has to be capitalism involved in this issue? :=) 

QRS 

Well, Steve is a US citizen, and we use capitalism as an economic philosophy! 
_________________
Please send me a Private Message to get my email for TG/game questions. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QRS1
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:44 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hence the smiley in my last post MKM 
_________________
Deca 2001, 2002 Champion. 
Editor at MARP 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Guest
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:02 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well, everyone has the right to do what they want with their recordings. Sell
them etc. I can afford to buy it, but I wont do it. Why? Cause I Don´t like the
idea of selling recordings". 

That's cool, but this is not your everyday recording.. 
(just ordered a DVD) 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
permafrostrick
Referee

Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 7:42 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please TG, let's have it so anonymous guest postings can't be done here anymore. 

...except for perhaps the general forum...so guests can ask general questions
to TG. 

these other forums should all be for members only. Anyone can take the couple 
of minutes to signup as a member. 

This was discussed a little bit about a month or so ago..but nothing changed yet. 
 
View previous topic :: View next topic   
Author Message 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QRS1
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 9:34 am    Post subject: RE   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous wrote: 
"Well, everyone has the right to do what they want with their recordings. Sell
them etc. I can afford to buy it, but I wont do it. Why? Cause I Don´t like the
idea of selling recordings". 
That's cool, but this is not your everyday recording.. 
(just ordered a DVD) 

Yeah, this is not an everyday recording. Like I said before, that is not my point. 
I just don´t like the idea about selling a recording period. My opinion, and I 
respect yours. Can you do the same with my opinion? 

QRS
_________________
Deca 2001, 2002 Champion. 
Editor at MARP 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FirebrandX
Referee
Location: Denton, TX
 Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 10:04 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
permafrostrick wrote: 
Please TG, let's have it so anonymous guest postings can't be done here anymore. 

...except for perhaps the general forum...so guests can ask general questions to TG. 

these other forums should all be for members only. Anyone can take the couple
of minutes to signup as a member. 

This was discussed a little bit about a month or so ago..but nothing changed yet. 


I believe when TG makes the transition of servers soon, the forums will be updated
and changed with improvements like that.
_________________
SSX Racing Champion 


Current favorite game: SSX3 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest
 Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: RE   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 QRS1 wrote: 
Anonymous wrote: 
"Well, everyone has the right to do what they want with their recordings. 
Sell them etc. I can afford to buy it, but I wont do it. Why? Cause I Don´t 
like the idea of selling recordings". 
That's cool, but this is not your everyday recording.. 
(just ordered a DVD) 

Yeah, this is not an everyday recording. Like I said before, that is not my point.
I just don´t like the idea about selling a recording period. My opinion, and I
respect yours. Can you do the same with my opinion? 

QRS 

I do respect your opinion!! That is why the first words I replied with were "that's 
cool".. (maybe you missed that)  
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
QRS1
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 5:18 pm    Post subject: RE   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest: 

Yeah I saw that. The rest of the sentence went on with "... this is not your 
everyday recording though.." 

By reading that It felt like you meant that this should be treated in a special 
way. And my personal opinion is no  

Anyway, thanks for respecting my opinion, and thanks for clearing things up! 

Cheers!!
_________________
Deca 2001, 2002 Champion. 
Editor at MARP  
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
permafrostrick
Referee
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 5:29 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW, there is an inp replay file at MARP for DK with a score of 904k that 
reaches the kill screen so just watch that to see what happens at the kill screen. 

Watching that versus the new WR tape isn't really that much of a difference IMHO. 
I'm guessing you just want to see it played to the kill screen....well, there ya go. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
RCorcoran
TG Board of Directors

Location: Glendale, AZ
 Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 5:31 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FirebrandX wrote: 
permafrostrick wrote: 
Please TG, let's have it so anonymous guest postings can't be done here anymore. 

...except for perhaps the general forum...so guests can ask general questions to TG. 

these other forums should all be for members only. Anyone can take the couple
of minutes to signup as a member. 

This was discussed a little bit about a month or so ago..but nothing changed yet. 


I believe when TG makes the transition of servers soon, the forums will be updated 
and changed with improvements like that. 


Yes, once Brien and I finish developing the new site and migrate everything from
the old server to our new power-house server, I will change ALL forums to registered
user only (sans General which will remain open)
_________________
Ron "Mr. Atari" Corcoran 
Twin Galaxies Chief Editor 

A couple of decent scores here and there... 
SPQR - Senatus Populus Que Romanus 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QRS1
 Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:54 pm    Post subject: RE   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
permafrostrick wrote: 
BTW, there is an inp replay file at MARP for DK with a score of 904k that
reaches the kill screen so just watch that to see what happens at the kill screen. 

Watching that versus the new WR tape isn't really that much of a difference IMHO.
I'm guessing you just want to see it played to the kill screen....well, there ya go. 


Yeah, I have watched that one. Benjos is an amazing player. I guess he could go 
further.. if he was interested. But these days he does not even show up at IRC  

Btw.. Benjos does not even like Donkey kong. He prefers Crazy kong! Just like me  

Edit:'Further" means more score in this case. Not getting pass the killscren. 
_________________
Deca 2001, 2002 Champion. 
Editor at MARP 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
permafrostrick
Referee

Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 8:06 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yeah I liked Crazy Kong more myself...but mainly cuz I could score a lot higher
than I ever did on donkey kong. 

I could get 400-500k on Crazy Kong...but never even broke the 200k mark in 
regular Donkey Kong...although that's partially cuz I played Crazy Kong a
lot more. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
andrewg
 Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:05 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wow i am very impressed. good job! 
i could never do that 
 

End of Page ========= 
***********************************************************************************
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
Funspot Message Board Link: For the below original context:
***********************************************************************************
Donkey Kong Question?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Funspot's Classic Arcade Game Forum: Archive Spring 2004: Donkey Kong Question? 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Scootie 
 Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 07:29 am 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Everyone 

It has come to my attention that on SOME Donkey Kong machines, you can climb a
ladder - almost to the top and not have to worry about any barrels coming down
on you. 

I am aware (and have played - back in the day) of a clone called Crazy Kong which
had this feature and made the ramp/barrel board MUCH easier! 

The DK machines I am referring to supposedly had only "Nintendo" on the title 
screen not "Nintendo of America". 

Can anyone verify this? 

thanks 
Scootie 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
David Nelson 
 Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 01:43 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've heard the same info, and I think you've explained the difference in machines
correctly. The one's that say just NINTENDO, DO allow this trick. 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------  
Scootie 
 Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 01:49 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Dave 

Do you know offhand if Funspot's DK is "Nintendo"? 

Scootie 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------   
Donald Hayes 
 Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 02:00 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe the DK that allows this trick also cycles all four different screens on
every level. Long ago at the arcade in my hometown the DK machine we had was like
this. I remember even on level 1 playing the conveyor belt and spring stages, and
later levels still only had 4 screens (instead of up to 6 on a regular DK). 

The one at Funspot definitely does not allow this trick. 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------   
Gregory Erway 
 Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 02:08 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scootie, 

I'm very familar with this situation and can probably shine a lot of light on
the situation. I think my info is 100% correct BUT I'm sure if I make a mistake
I will welcome corrections. 

First of all a description of the move is in order. On the "Barrell Boards" 
(first board of the game and the board that shows up most often) the player 
can climb a ladder and make sure both of Jumpmans hands are on the girder
above him. In this position, normal rolling barrels cannot turn and come down 
that ladder. Wayward thrown barrels can and will still occasionally hit Jumpan.
This trick was only available on some versions of the Donkey Kong release.
Other versions, the ones we almost always play today and the only ones accepted
by Twin Galaxies toward record logging do not allow the trick. 

The very first Donkey Kong machines released were typically red in color. This
is because left over game cabinets were used from a previously released game
called Radar Scope. Most or all of these cabinets shipped with the first 
version of the ROMs which DID allow the trick. 

Later, some say in order to make the game harder, Nintendo released a newer
ROM version that was shipped to arcade operators who swapped the chips to the
new versions and discarded the old ROM chips. This new version did NOT allow 
the trick. 

Later released versions of the DK cabinet were blue. These are the most commonly 
found machines. They were all shipped with the newer ROMs that did not contain
the trick (as far as I know). 

An easy way to identify if the game has the older ROMs (with trick) or the newer
ROMs (without trick) is to watch the attract mode. At the point where the words 
DONKEY KONG appear, there is a copyright notice for Nintendo of America listed 
on the version of ROMs WITHOUT the trick. I believe the version of ROMs with 
the trick did not have this copyright listed but may have just listed Nintendo.
I'm not sure. 

DK boards and ROM chips are labled with a version number. The version we almost 
always find today, and the only version Twin Galaxies tracks for record purposes,
is one labled TKG-4. I have bought a set of TKG-3 ROMs in the hopes they 
contained the trick. They did not. 

I suspect there is a TKG-2 or TKG-1 version of the ROMs out there that may
contain the trick. I would like to get my hands on such a set or board. 

I have purchased a set of DK PCBs that contained the Japan ROMs and these DO allow
the trick. The main give away that this is the Japan ROMs is that all 4 versions
of the boards (barrels, conveyors, elevators, and rivits) are present of every 
level (including Level 1) exactly one time each. Therefore a game to the kill 
screen contains 85 boards (including the kill screen) consisting of 21 of each
board then adding one more barrel screen as the kill screen. A normal US set of
ROMs (TKG-4) will consist of 117 boards to reach the kill screen (consisting of
57 barrel boards, 19 conveyor boards, 20 elevator boards, and 21 rivet boards). 
Thus if you wanted to go for a record, and Japan ROMs were allowed, it wouldn't
make much sense to use them anyways.  

In addition, I have around 6 working DK boardsets and many have different hardware
release variants even within the TKG-4 artwork. I do not know the differences and
never looked close enough to figure it out. yet anyways.  

MAME ROM releases, to date, do not seem to include any earlier version of ROMs
that would include the trick. 

I was at an auction in 1997 where two Donkey Kong machines were sold. One you could 
do the trick on and the other you could not. The one that included the trick had
a cabinet serial number in the 3000 range. The other was in the 50,000 range. I 
tried to purchase the trick version but failed. I did buy the other machine for
$325 (the trick machine sold for $375). It was sold to someone that had no idea
of the difference. He would have let me have the game but he liked the firmer
controls on the one he bought. It was to be located in a bar in Brockport, NY 
somwhere near the SUNY school. I have often thought of tracking this guy down and
trying to work out a trade for another working boardset or machine. I'm not even 
sure the bar would be in business any longer as it was a newly opening bar at the
time and many don't make it through a single year. 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------  
Scootie 
 Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 04:32 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Don 

The Game you played was not Donkey Kong but the afforementioned "Crazy Kong".
Crazy Kong had all four boards on the first (as well as every subsequent) level. 

Scootie 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------   
Donald Hayes 
 Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 04:47 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am 99% sure that the machine I used to play on called itself "Donkey Kong" 
(both on the marquee and the game's startup screen). From Greg's description, 
it would appear I used to play on the Japanese roms. 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------   
Zotmeister 
 Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 05:11 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg's right - the original Japanese edition of the game just cycled the four
levels over and over in order. The US version is more, shall we say, creative. 

Crazy Kong is... something else entirely. Entirely wrong, at that. It's a bootleg.
It wouldn't surprise me at all that it's a bootleg of the earlier ROM versions 
of Donkey Kong, which would be why the trick is permitted in that game. - ZM 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Robert T Mruczek 
 Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 06:52 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello all: 

A few "bootleg" versions of "Donkey Kong" existed, "Crazy Kong" being just 
one of them. 

That version contained a bug which allowed players to bypass most of the barrel 
stage, as well as a way to bypass about half the conveyor belt stage by taking 
an invisible ladder to the top. 

I did see years back a version that bears some resemlance to what Scootie described.
It was definitely a CK clone. In the barrel stage, there was one ladder that went
from near botom up to the very top with no ways to get off inbetween girders. That 
plus the barrels were much trickier, and when you rescued the girl at the end,
you were sort of rewarded. Decorum prevents me from saying more. 

I'm sure there are a lot of variants like this, maybe even a few yet to be
discovered !! 

Robert 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Gregory Erway 
 Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 11:03 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I would say the DK Don played had the Japan ROMs in it. My Japan ROM
board does work fine. I also own a Crazy Kong cocktail table and am fairly 
familiar with that one too but prefer the real DK. Interesting that the manual/
"piece of paper" for Crazy Kong in the cocktail table actually refers to the game
as Crazy Kong II. But the main screen indicates a name of just Crazy Kong. Back 
in the 80's, there was a second rate arcade I used to visit when the main arcade
I frequented was unavailable (closed or I couldn't get there). They had a Con 
Gorilla. From my memory, Con Gorilla was exactly like Crazy Kong. I loved DK so
much that I would play these "bootlegs" just to play something like DK. As a 
result I am happy to have one bootleg in my collection of games. 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------  
Gregory Erway 
 Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 11:07 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Almost forgot. One of the DK boarsets I picked up at an operator had one of
the ROM chips removed and installed on a seperate daughter card with some dip
switches on it. It appears this chip controls the order of the boards and by 
changing the dip switches you can alter the order of the boards to some extent.
When I first got it, the PCB played rivet level 2 as the first board. I should
really take the time to map out all combinations of dip switch settings. It's
not real useful but pretty cool. I also have a DK boardset that is running a
game called Hunchback on it. The main processor and possibly a few other chips
where moved to a plug in daughter card to alter this boardset. I believe the
game Hunchback was released on two different platforms. One was a 2 board DK 
PCB and the other I think was Scramble. 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------  
Brian Kuh 
 Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 01:35 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was Donkey Kong the most bootlegged game? Sometimes it seems like Donkey Kong 
inspired more bootlegs than any other game, even more than Pac Man. I spoke to
someone once who said that he used to have trouble finding a real Donkey Kong
machine to play because it seemed like every Donkey Kong is his area was a 
bootleg. 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------   
Gregory Erway 
 Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 01:43 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder if the spread of bootlegs like Crazy Kong, Con Gorilla, etc. led to
the newer DK ROM version that included the more specific American copyright 
of Nintendo of America. I bet the previous copyright was not appropriate and 
companies took advantage of the lack of a valid US copyright. I think Crazy 
Kong was made by Falcon if I remember  
End of Page ========= 


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
www.twingalaxies.com
 Unbelievable!!! WR DVD on EBAY!

 New Donkey Kong Thread on Twin Galaxies Link
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kasht

Posts: 27
Location: Caguas, Puerto Rico
 Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:54 pm    Post subject: Unbelievable!!! WR DVD on EBAY!   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi, 

I just wanted to share this. This is the first time I see a World Record 
video for any game being sold on Ebay. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4315&item=8141394192&rd=1 

Your poll answer will be appreciated. 

Enjoy! 

David 'Kasht' Vicens
_________________
Currently working on: BOUNTIES! Diddy Kong Racing (COMPLETE!) and Cruis'n USA 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LucidFai

Posts: 324
Location: Columbus, OH
 Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:19 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be a good watch. If I were considering competing for Donkey Kong
I might pick it up. 

But as it stands now, I don't think there's a WR video that I would pay money
to see.
_________________
Adam Sweeney 
Mega Man X, 100% - 46:27 
Solstice - 7:25 
Super Mario World - 11:09 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pacmanfevr76

Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
 Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:27 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Having noted the high bidder, I would say at least one person from this site
holds some interest in seeing how it was done. 

Apparently this also means that Billy's march towards 1,000,000 is wasted.
_________________
Douglas Loyd 
TG Bounty Hunter ($150 for 2, so far) 
Perfect Pitfall score - 8/14/04 
3,333,360 OR BUST!! 

THE QUEST: 1,219,910 through 92 (11/1/04)  
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
MKM
TG Advisor

Location: $C000 - $CFFF
 Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:05 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't know Steve had broke 1 mil! 

WOW!!!!! 

Billy has got a lot of work to do to retake the Donkey Kong title as Steve
had broke 1 mil on both! 

Impressive! 

Billy still can be the first to break a million on Ms. Pac-man!
_________________
Please send me a Private Message to get my email for TG/game questions. 
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
MKM
TG Advisor

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:06 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LucidFaia wrote: 
That would be a good watch. If I were considering competing for Donkey Kong
I might pick it up. 

But as it stands now, I don't think there's a WR video that I would pay money
to see. 

I have had people email me and offer 25 bucks for some of my Resident Evil
stuff.
_________________
Please send me a Private Message to get my email for TG/game questions. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
pacmantab

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:06 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I for one would be open to a book deal. I'm still pitching a "autobio" format 
to publishers. If I could find a taker, I might think about adding more in a 
2nd printing....
_________________
- Tim B. 
1983 Pac-Man World Champion 
FIRST Perfect MAME (5/11/2002) 
Perfect Arcade (6/14/2003) 
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sandinista

Location: Manchester UK
 Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:16 pm    Post subject:    
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it bodes well for the future . Any interest in our hobby is a good thing.
A load of people who don`t know anything about world records / Twin Galaxies may
now , having been looking on ebay for a console version of Donkey Kong . Now all
we need is the press / media to get a hold of the story . 
People sell everything on ebay , so why not a World record !! 10 dollars isn`t
much is it ?! 

I`ll be watching to see what it fetches ... 

sandinista 
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permafrostrick
Referee

Location: Baltimore, MD
 Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:37 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would have waited until it was verified by TG before advertising it like that. 

It's an interesting idea though. 

I also would hope the dvd cover graphic would be a screenshot of the FINAL
score/death!....not just from the demo/attract mode. 

It is amazing to top 1 million though. He obviously must have improved his 
point leeching on levels....especially the initial ladder type level. 
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TStodden

Location: Marcus, IA, USA
 Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:33 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
//places bid on DVD...  

I'd like to see how it's done myself & the price is reasonable right now, even
though the "Buy-it-Now" option wasn't available.
_________________
 
TG Ref @ Large 
Slick Click Record Holder - 1,522 pts 

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kasht

Location: Caguas, Puerto Rico
 Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:15 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Buy It Now option was available and the price was $9.99. I'm glad nobody
got it using Buy It Now since it would be interesting to see how high this goes. 

I'm pretty sure Billy Mitchell is watching this pretty closely.  

Well, 5 days 17 hours left, $4.25 is the price. Any estimates on how high 
this will go? 

David 'Kasht' Vicens
_________________
Currently working on: BOUNTIES! Diddy Kong Racing (COMPLETE!) and Cruis'n USA 
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LucidFaia
Location: Columbus, OH
 Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:35 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, it won't exceed $9.99, I can tell you that. Why make a bid on something
for over ten dollars when you could just buy it right then and there for ten?
_________________
Adam Sweeney 
Mega Man X, 100% - 46:27 
Solstice - 7:25 
Super Mario World - 11:09 
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sandinista
Location: Manchester UK
 Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:46 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: 
Well, it won't exceed $9.99, I can tell you that. Why make a bid on something 
for over ten dollars when you could just buy it right then and there for ten? 

It could go over 10 dollars .... remember that once a bid is made , the option
to buy it now disappears . So later bidders could lift the price right up as
they don`t have the option to buy it now . . 

Having said that , he`s unlikely to be selling his only copy , so I would think 
it would be wise to email him after the auction and ask him for a copy if this
auction gets too high , though that`s probably against ebay rules  

sandinista 
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RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors

Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:12 pm    Post subject: TG Reply - DK Performance   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello MKM: 

At this time, the verification process is still underway. The performance in 
question, if the score and ROMset combination is legitmatem could be a significant 
scoring achievement, and therefore TG is doing everything within our experience
and with the tools available to us, in order to ascertain the legitimacy of the 
score, in fairness to the gamer in question and to the gaming community. 

The verification process has been underway for some time, and it is our position 
that until complete verification is attained, no official pre-announcement of this
performance could be made. That would be jumping the gun. 

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me directly at my at-work
E-MAIL address. I will be happy to answer. Thank you. 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
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TStodden

Location: Marcus, IA, USA
 Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:19 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
//places another bid... & another... & another... & another... without any success... 

I GIVE UP! It looks like I'm not getting it, but at least I've drived up the 
price to $15.50 
_________________
TG Ref @ Large 
Slick Click Record Holder - 1,522 pts 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
awesome

Location: Rochester, NY
 Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:42 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd, 

I would wait if I were you. Steve had been selling the old score DVD for months
on eBay. He also used to sell them off his webpage (can't remember what it was 
but something like donkeykongcam.com) for $9.99 all the time. I'm guessing he'll
continue to sell these too.
_________________
Gregory S. Erway 

#1 Tapper TGMS 9,100,175 31May03 
#1 Tapper TGTS 1,821,325 01Jun02 
#1 Rootbeer Tapper TGMS 1,959,200 28Jul86 
#2 Wild Western 826,900 07Jun04 
#2 Pepper II 505,980 13Jun04 
#3 M.A.C.H. 3 - Bomber 353,200 22Mar86 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Link Page 2 Twin Galaxies --  Twin Galaxies Forums
www.twingalaxies.com
 Unbelievable!!! WR DVD on EBAY!

kasht

Posts: 27
Location: Caguas, Puerto Rico
 Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:53 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I guess somebody's getting more than $10 for the DVD. Right now is @ $15.50.
I can't believe I didn't buy only minutes after it was posted when the buy it now 
price was still $9.99. At least we will find out how much somebody will pay to get
the secrets on how to break the 1 million mark in the classic DK. 

See yah 

David 'Kasht' Vicens
_________________
Currently working on: BOUNTIES! Diddy Kong Racing (COMPLETE!) and Cruis'n USA 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors

Posts: 3318
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:06 pm    Post subject: Secrets !!   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi David: 

Well, can't divulge the gamers' techniques as that is for them to do, but I can 
tell you this from my having watched a few high-point DK performances lately. 

Seems to me like an average completion might be in the 800-850K range. Raising
the bar every 40-50K or so means employing additional tactics and strategies. 

Like "Ms Pacman", there exists a certain amount of randomness to DK involving
hammer points. Sometimes you can get as much as 800, other times 500 or even
300. Thus, in an extended game, counting all the barrels, fireballs and mine
cars destroyed (and I have some data on this, by the way, from Steve's performance),
the score can vary widely as 800 is 266% of 300 points, a huge differential. 

Whether this is controllable, that I cannot say. 

As for stage strategies, again without divulging tactics, I can say that the greatest
potential source of points is without a doubt the barrel stage. The lowest source 
would be the elevator stage, and depending on a gamer's personal skillset, either
the conveyor or rivet stages will yield the second highest points in a game. 

As I stated in a previous DK-related article, one possible point-optimizing strategy
would be to reach the 115th or 116th stage on your 1st life, and max out points 
there letting the timer run down to zero. Repeat for 2nd and 3rd life, then play 
the game to conclusion on the last. This strategy, if properly employed, can provide
an additional 8-10K per life for the 1st three lives. Not bad for this title. 

Additionally, without giving away strategies, it is a fair statement that using the
hammers efficiently in the barrel boards exceeds the point value of simply running
to the top. And considering how many barrel boards there are the entire game, the 
cumulative points attained from just the barrel stages can vary widely depending 
on player strategy, moreso than in any other stage. 

Due to it's relative scarcity of point opportunities, the elevator boards tend to
yield the least points. And regardless of skillset, things can happen in the rivet
and conveyor boards which can greatly diminish your points opportunitie. 

For example, in the conveyor belt stages, occassionally you lose precious time 
waiting for an opening on the top most section while fireballs congregate near
the ladder. And in the rivet stage, the same might happen near the top corners. 
Then again, some strategies will do well to prevent either case from happening 
regularly. 

Just some thoughts on the subject based on what I've seen. 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

******************************

Last edited by RMRUCZEK on Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total 
 
----------------------------------------------------     
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
permafrostrick
Referee

Location: Baltimore, MD
 Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: Secrets !!   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RMRUCZEK wrote: 
Well, can't divulge the gamers' techniques as that is for them to do, but I can
tell you this from my having watched a few high-point DK performances lately. 

Actually, I think the public auction of a DVD showing the video is the same as total
public disclosure of the video where all rights and privileges he had for other 
organizations to keep information from it to themselves is lost. 

For example, what is keeping whoever buys this to post to these forums describing 
in great detail how he gets the extra points on certain levels? 

Is some disclaimer form also part of that sale where you sign something saying 
you will not discuss what is on the DVD with anyone? That would seem nearly 
impossible. 

If a gamer wants their techniques to remain private, selling the video on e-bay
isn't the way to go about it.  

Yes, TG's position is to not dilvulge anything until the gamer has given their
permission. However, as I noted above there now will be other sources of this. 
ie. Once a story is on the 6 o'clock news then all other stations can cover the 
story...even if previous to that they weren't allowed to do so. 
Quote: 
Like "Ms Pacman", there exists a certain amount of randomness to DK involving 
hammer points. Sometimes you can get as much as 800, other times 500 or even 300. 

I didn't think those were random Robert. It all has to do with where you hit 
the barrel...and also perhaps the hammer position. It also has to do with if
you are hammering a fireball barrel, one tossed directly down from Dkong himself...
or just one rolling down...or coming down a ladder. 

That's only for the barrel levels though. I am not sure if any variance in score
for the cars...if so that might be related to speed....direction you are moving 
with/against the car when you hammer it etc. 
Quote: 
Whether this is controllable, that I cannot say. 

I think it is slightly controllable. Steve's progression in scoring the past 
couple of years actually hints this. If it was just a random thing, he wouldn't
even have any control over it...which means similar to mspac it would take 1000s
of games played to perhaps have a lucky one where 1 million is possible. 
Quote: 
I can say that the greatest potential source of points is without a doubt the
barrel stage. 

Definitely. 

Quote: 
Due to it's relative scarcity of point opportunities, the barrel boards tend to 
yield the least points. 

brain typo here? the barrel boards are highest...as you stated above. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zotmeister
Location: Tiverton, RI
 Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:30 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kasht wrote: 
Well, I guess somebody's getting more than $10 for the DVD. Right now is @ 
$15.50. I can't believe I didn't buy only minutes after it was posted when the
buy it now price was still $9.99. 

Tell me about it - I was the one that broke the ice and bid rather than buying 
it outright. If only I'd known... - ZM
_________________
Darkness lessons learned/Avenging golden tresses/Yellow flower blooms 
- "(dedicated to Millia Rage)", original haiku 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------      
permafrostrick
Referee
Location: Baltimore, MD
 Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:46 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lol ZM. 

I was surprised it isn't actually some dutch auction with a buy-it-now attached
with perhaps 10 copies for sale. 

....it's more efficient that way....plus with the combo of buy-it-now it would
be where the first 10 to buy-it-now get it..for $9.99. 


..cuz I'm guessing since it's over $10 it won't be the only copy to be sold. 
...but he wants buyers to think it is...so get this one now....might be the last. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------      
pacmantab
 Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:43 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greetings 

It would greatly depend on whether the DVD is considered a “unique and original”
work by the player. By default, an original/unique work is copyrighted at the time
of its creation – which is good for the life of the author/creator plus 50 years. 

While the game and images themselves are trademarks of Nintendo of America, I 
would submit that the player’s movements/strategies during his game are his own 
unique work. It would follow, then, that his recording of the same can be considered
copyrighted. 

If we accept this argument, then anyone who should buy the DVD, and then post it 
for download on the internet, or otherwise make it available for distribution 
without the express consent of the player would be in violation of copyright law –
and thus subject to civil and/or criminal penalties – even if there is no explicit
warning or disclaimer on the packaging or on the video. 

That said, this is why I would choose to make such unlawful distribution as hard
as possible. First of all, I would put said strategies in hardcopy book form,
while explicitly adding an advisory – explaining that the work is copyrighted 
and cannot be reproduced or redistributed without permission (there are certain 
things that Kinkos will not photocopy for you without written consent from the 
author/copyright owner). This would not only make it more of a chore for someone
to reproduce the work for posting on the web, but it would also remove any doubt 
that what they are doing is illegal. In other words, they could not say "no one 
told me it wasn't OK" as a defense later. 

I would hope that whosoever should purchase this DVD is aware of the ramifications
of copyright law and will respect the player’s intent – to share his accomplishment
with the world (and possibly make some additional income while doing it).  

One final thought: It may very well be the case where most players would not be 
able to duplicate this player’s feat simply by watching the video. Sure, you can 
see the player get through board after board, and you might get a general idea of
what to do and how to do it. But in many cases, that is not enough. You often need
to know certain intricacies of the game or strategy – some of which you cannot pick
up on no matter how many times you view a video of a top player’s game.
_________________
- Tim B. 
1983 Pac-Man World Champion 
FIRST Perfect MAME (5/11/2002) 
Perfect Arcade (6/14/2003) 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:31 pm    Post subject: The Copyright Law   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Tim: 

Now, I'm no expert on this, but a taping of a videogame performance is a unique 
event not protected by ownership. It's not like taping a Major League baseball 
game, that's for sure. But it's also not a family home movie, either. 

People have sold the entire "Dragon's Lair", "Cliffhanger" and "Cobra Command"
games right off the laser disc copied to video in the past. Doesn't imply it's 
legit to do so, but thus far I have not seen anything challenged. 

It should be fine to purchase such items. Selling is of course the sticking point. 

Down the line, TG might (with gamer permission) do some of the same when time and 
resources permit. Like Disney and Warner Brothers, our library of past performances
is tremendous, and an untapped financial resource. Once we fully understand the 
legal parameters with selling such performances, we may very well do so in the
future with selected performances and only with each gamer's approval. 

As you know, all materials sent to TG become the property of TG. At this time, our
legal disclaimer does not appear to specifically cover copies made before sending
to TG, nor does it appear to cover the concept of an INP file at all. Thus, at this
time, gamers appear to be within their rights to sell a copy of their performance 
on their own. Thus, under these circumstances, any legal hurdles they might incur 
while doing so are exclusively theirs to deal with. 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------     
RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:37 pm    Post subject: D'oh !! (to Rick)   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Rick: 

Yep...caught me in a brain fart there...I meant to say "Elevators" yielded the 
least points. 

And as you all can tell, it must remain TG's position not to willfully divulge 
tactics without the gamer's pre-approval as a matter of respect to that gamer. 

This works for the best, I think, as it allows the gamer the final decision to
reveal their hard-earned tactics and strategies. 

What we cannot prevent of course, nor would we, are gamers who on their own 
volition choose to divulge such tactics. That is always their prerogative to do so. 

For example...I have about three or four major world record announcements to be
posted within the next few days. The articles will be of a recap format, and it
will be the gamer's decision to provide any tips and tactics that they wish to share. 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------     
permafrostrick
Referee
Location: Baltimore, MD
 Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: D'oh !! (to Rick)   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RMRUCZEK wrote: 
And as you all can tell, it must remain TG's position not to willfully divulge 
tactics without the gamer's pre-approval as a matter of respect to that gamer. 

I totally agree with this....but it's not revealing anything once that has been 
revealed elsewhere....right? TG obviously would need to be careful and not reveal 
anything not already revealed elsewhere...but could potentially confirm what has
been revealed elsewhere. 

ie. someone submits a tape for a perfect pacman..and asks you to not divulge a
pattern was developed and used for boards #21 through #255...well duH! it's common 
knowledge...so to confirm it from that tape means nothing...requires no permission 
from the author. The author can say to not show their 9th key pattern though. 
However, if you see the pattern on the internet elsewhere you can certainly confirm
that the pattern works. 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------    
RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors

Posts: 3318
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:37 pm    Post subject: One More Train of Thought   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Rick: 

Ever see or read about the illusionist team "Penn and Teller" ? Okay...magicians, 
illusionists, whatever you wish to call them. 

Anyway, one of their shticks is to reveal how they actually create some of their 
illusions. A few of their fellow magicians and illusionists are fine with this,
while some feel they are not being true to their profession. 

So, it comes down to a matter of opinion. 
Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
permafrostrick
Referee

Location: Baltimore, MD
 Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:43 pm    Post subject: Re: One More Train of Thought   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RMRUCZEK wrote: 
Anyway, one of their shticks is to reveal how they actually create some of their
illusions. A few of their fellow magicians and illusionists are fine with this,
while some feel they are not being true to their profession. 

So, it comes down to a matter of opinion. 
Robert 

definitely. 

although the Penn and Teller stuff is killer cuz they embellish the trick far 
beyond what it really is. hehe 

cmon... all "sane"(hehe) people know magicians are just doing tricks....regardless
how many times they watch the trick. Sure maybe seeing exactly how the trick is 
done spoils it for them....but if entertaining at the same time...odds are you 
still see it. 

ie. We ALL knew how Titanic (or tons of other movies)was going to end...yet
tons went and enjoyed the movie anyway. 

How many go and watch the same movie over and over and over.... again? They have
seen it enough to know the lines and all that happens. Music...we listen to the 
same songs over and over again until we can't stand it anymore...hehe How many
go to a comedy club to watch a comic where they have seen them enough they know
most of the material? It's still funny and fun to watch the performance...plus 
if good material you will laugh at it even if you know the joke...sometimes perhaps
get even more out of it....like Andrew Dice Clay fans got from it. 

It's all about entertainment. Magicians like Penn and Teller are very entertaining 
for doing those magician skits. Many of those aren't true to the real way those
tricks are done anyway....although certainly similar. 

A person disappears from a box...there is a hidden area or a slanted mirror etc.
type thing used!!! People should know this by now. 

They buy the silly box in the dollar store that has that slanted mirror in it 
where you put something in and it "disappears"....flip/spin the box around so 
the mirror is slanted the other way and it reappears....oh boy! 

sorry if that spoiler destroyed the mysticism of magic for some readers. hehe 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors

Posts: 3318
Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:09 pm    Post subject: Hey HEY !!   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Rick: 

Next you'll tell us something about a guy in a red suit. (It's really the pizza god,
Todd Rogers, in disguise, but SHHHH !!) 

Down the line I can definitely see some releases, maybe compilations. Dwayne had 
an idea on these lines awhile back, and it is a good one, so we'll see. Once Walter 
returns from Florida I'll bring the issue up. 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19Duke84

Posts: 286
Location: CT, USA
 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Hey HEY !!   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone wishes to really question the legality of all of this then it's 
simple...video game companies essentially own the rights to their unique software
but like all companies they do NOT own the rights to all unique uses of their 
software. 

An example of this would be Microsoft Office. Microsoft own's the rights to
Microsoft Word but they do not own the rights to all documents typed out on 
Microsoft Word. Though the program makes it possible for people to create their
documents to their liking it is still the sole property of the writer and not 
of Microsoft. I would imagine this would be the same case with video game software;
it would be difficult for the game companies to argue otherwise and I'm fairly 
certain that they don't give a damn either.  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
permafrostrick
Referee
Location: Baltimore, MD
 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:13 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yep, last I knew videos are exactly like computer software. 

The price to "buy" the video isn't actually for the video at all...but for the 
license rights for you to use/view the particular movie all you want. 

That "license" only belongs to whoever owns the tape. This allows you to resell 
it and essentially transfer the license to another user. 

These licenses can come in many forms. Some do have restrictions on it's use....
but most licenses only express rights in terms of further distribution. 
Quote: 
they do NOT own the rights to all unique uses of their software.  

...or even their hardware...otherwise these emulators would be illegal. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19Duke84

Location: CT, USA
 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:50 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
permafrostrick wrote: 
yep, last I knew videos are exactly like computer software. 

The price to "buy" the video isn't actually for the video at all...but for the
license rights for you to use/view the particular movie all you want. 

That "license" only belongs to whoever owns the tape. This allows you to resell
it and essentially transfer the license to another user. 

These licenses can come in many forms. Some do have restrictions on it's use....
but most licenses only express rights in terms of further distribution. 
Quote: 
they do NOT own the rights to all unique uses of their software.  

...or even their hardware...otherwise these emulators would be illegal. 

Actually I believe emulators and roms are technically illegal. The whole debate
stems from the idea that you can own a backup copy of a game you own and therefor
it's legal to download a old game if you own the original copy. However I believe
the specifics require you to make a backup copy of your own (as proof of ownership)
and I don't recall this applying to old cartridge games at all (you can't back them
up yourself). As a result all roms are technically illegal despite what everyone 
seems to believe. The thing is the gaming companies don't usually care because they
don't lose money by you downloading an old NES game. There more focused on busting
people downloading the lastest games than old ROMs. 

Essentially they don't want to spend millions in lawsuits on something that makes
them $0 profit (they don't sell their older stuff anywhere). 
Link Page 3 Twin Galaxies Message Board
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QRS1
 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:06 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Emulators are not ilegal... the roms are. Every emulator that has no roms enbeded
in the code etc are perfectly legal. They are just programs that makes your PC/MAC
etc. to behave like the actual arcade/console etc.
_________________
Deca 2001, 2002 Champion. 
Editor at MARP 
 
----------------------------------------------------       
19Duke84
Location: CT, USA
 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:24 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QRS1 wrote: 
Emulators are not ilegal... the roms are. Every emulator that has no roms enbeded
in the code etc are perfectly legal. They are just programs that makes your PC/MAC
etc. to behave like the actual arcade/console etc. 

Yeah I wasn't all that sure about emulators themselves. 
----------------------------------------------------       
TheSilentAssassin

Location: Kingdom of Hyrule
 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:53 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to clear something up - you have to pay for (C) protection, you just don't 
get it. I think the only automatic (C) protection one gets is publishing information
on the internet. If you publish something online, you get (C) protection - but
only for texts. 

Besides - I pay for a Nintendo game, I am allowed to divulge every bit of info 
about that game to everyone on the net whether Nintendo wants me to or not. The 
same is true about this DVD. I can post whatever I want about it should I buy it. 

As for putting the entire video online - that could lead to some issues, but I 
think that even though it is a performance, you're allowed to show off portions of it.
_________________
 
 
----------------------------------------------------          
Alex_Weir

Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 188
Location: Dublin , Rep. of Ireland
 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:19 pm    Post subject: re...   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding ROM's. Don't you have 24 hours to play with after downloading it ?
And if by then you can't legally prove you own the ROM , you must get rid of it . 

Could be wrong , can anyone back me up here? I seem to remember reading something 
like that. 

As for the Donkey Kong DVD , fair play to the guy. As for the legal/copyright 
stuff, it all depends whats stated on the DVD. He is basically selling something
with Nintendo's name. Gotta be some agreement there or else the guy could be
slaughtered. Easy way to find out is either to buy the DVD or even ask the guy. 

As for Penn + Teller they show simple tricks done well. Magicians who complain
are not very imaginative. Kinda like when 'Valantino' showed how all classic
illusions were done on that TV programme(s). His reasoning was for magicians to
look for new tricks and not bore us with the same tricks over and over again. 
He wanted magicians to use their creativeness and come up with new tricks. He 
was scorned, but he was right. 

Cheers, 

AL 
----------------------------------------------------         
LucidFaia
Location: Columbus, OH
 Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: re...   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alex_Weir wrote: 
Regarding ROM's. Don't you have 24 hours to play with after downloading it ?
And if by then you can't legally prove you own the ROM , you must get rid of it . 
 
That's actually not true. That's a false statement that was created by some ROM
sites in order to trick people into thinking what they were doing is legal. I've 
also seen ROMsites cite the "Internet Privacy Act," which doesn't exist. This
is to try and prevent people from narcing on them. 

The only real problem is that even though distrbuting ROMs is illegal, there's
no real way for them to find out that you own an illegal ROM. In fact, many 
organizations don't care, and merely half-heartedly seek out websites that 
distribute them. Owning a ROM is no different than most anything you can download
off of Kazaa Lite. Illegal as hell, but they can't do much about it.
_________________
Adam Sweeney 
Mega Man X, 100% - 46:27 
Solstice - 7:25 
Super Mario World - 11:09 
----------------------------------------------------        
Alex_Weir

Location: Dublin , Rep. of Ireland
 Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:30 am    Post subject: re...   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said , I wasn't too sure. 

Thanks for clearing that up. 

AL 
----------------------------------------------------         
permafrostrick
Referee
Location: Baltimore, MD
 Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:52 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yeah, they were trying to apply the mp3 rule to roms. 

For mp3s, it seems you are allowed to play it and keep it for a period of 24 
hours. After that, unless you own the actual anytime-listening rights to the 
song by owning a CD, DVD, anything with that song on it, then you must delete
that mp3. 

They were using that same logic for roms. It's an invalid jump from one to 
another....so yeah...no dice on that. 

I wonder though....if for example you buy one of these new handhel systems 
that just plugin and show the graphics on your TV...like the mspac, digdug, etc.
one, if you can then claim since you actually "own" the rom which is inside that
handheld if you legally can also possess the MAME rom. 

I don't see why you couldn't....but if you get strict on the copyright laws you
can't...cuz the only backup copy would be if you could make a dump of the rom 
chips/files in that handheld..versus getting roms in another form separately. 
 
----------------------------------------------------        
Zotmeister
Location: Tiverton, RI
 Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:16 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The bidding's over - finally - and I REALLY should have used Buy It Now.
But that's okay. 

For the record, my maximum bid was about quadruple the final price. - ZM
_________________
Darkness lessons learned/Avenging golden tresses/Yellow flower blooms 
- "(dedicated to Millia Rage)", original haiku 
----------------------------------------------------        
sandinista
Location: Manchester UK
 Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:07 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zotmeister Said : 
Quote: 
For the record, my maximum bid was about quadruple the final price.  

Wow , You really wanted it then  

Robert Mruczek Said : 
Quote: 
Down the line I can definitely see some releases, maybe compilations. Dwayne 
had an idea on these lines awhile back, and it is a good one, so we'll see. 
Once Walter returns from Florida I'll bring the issue up. 
 
I would LOVE a DVD of all the classic records , unfortunately , most won`t have
been video taped . Definitely interested in purchasing some that are available,
hope it comes through Robert 

Sandinista 
----------------------------------------------------       
permafrostrick
Referee

Location: Baltimore, MD
 Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:29 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zotmeister wrote: 
The bidding's over - finally - and I REALLY should have used Buy It Now.
But that's okay. 

For the record, my maximum bid was about quadruple the final price. - ZM 

Evidently Steve knew exactly what he was doing.  
 
----------------------------------------------------  

-------------
TStodden

Location: Marcus, IA, USA
 Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:50 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's the deal... This is mainly to help Alex_Weir to understand the legal 
stuff with ROM's & emulators. 

1) Emulators have the exact same rights as VCR's & any recording medium. 
Emulators can't operate without ROMs (like VCR's without tapes, ect.), so 
emulators are legal to have... as long as they're used responsibly... 

2) You can only keep ROMs that YOU MAKE YOURSELF. You're not allow to download
ROMs of games that you own because you're downloading somebody else's copy &
NOT YOUR COPY... 

3) The ESA (formerly IDSA) has a lot of information about it as well... Below
is a brief clip that I've copied from their website (which I have saved for 
use in the Nintendo forums for similar occasions) 

//Opens Briefcase (source: http://www.theesa.com/piracy.html ) 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Isn't it legal to copy video & computer games as a backup as long as you own 
a legitimate copy? 

U.S. Copyright laws permit making a "backup" copy of computer programs for
archival purposes. However, the right to make backup copies of computer programs
for archival purposes, as embodied in 17 U.S.C. Section 117(2), does not in 
any way authorize the owner of a copy of a video or computer game to post or
download a copy of that game to or from the Internet. Section 117(2) only gives
the owner of the copy a right to make an archival copy of the actual copy that
he/she legally possesses, not to make a copy of the ROM that someone else legally 
possesses, nor to post an archival copy of his/her original copy for distribution.
Also, there is not an unfettered right to sell "backup" copies. In fact, Section
117 is quite explicit in stating that any archival copy prepared under Section 
117(2) can only be transferred to another person if, and only if: A) The original
copy is also transferred, and only with the authorization of the copyright owner,
and B) The transfer is part of the sale of all rights in the program. 

Isn't it OK to copy games that are no longer distributed in the stores or
commercially exploited? 

No, the current availability of a game in stores is irrelevant to its copyright 
status. Unlike trademarks, copyrights are not considered abandoned if they are no
longer enforced. Copyrights do not enter the public domain just because they are 
no longer commercially exploited or widely available. Therefore, the copyrights 
of games are valid even if the games are not found on store shelves, and copying 
or distributing those games is a copyright infringement. 

Haven't the copyrights for old games (like Atari & Commodore) expired? 

U.S. copyright laws state that copyrights owned by corporations are valid for
75 years from the date of first publication. Because video & computer games 
have been around for less than three decades, the copyrights of all video and 
computer programs will not expire for many decades to come. 

Don't programmers use emulators during the development process of a game? 

Yes, some programmers do use emulators to create games. However, programmers
who are properly licensed to create games for a game console do so with the
permission of the affected copyright owners. These authorized programmers,
who often use specialized hardware emulators, create new, properly licensed
video games with the authorization of the copyright owner. However, a very 
different situation is presented when someone uses the proprietary code in 
a game console without the copyright owner's permission. In fact, most emulators
that are freely available today are merely software emulators that have no role
in the creation of properly licensed video games; these emulators have the 
exclusive purpose of infringing copyrights and are illegal. 

Aren't emulators programs that somebody has created and decided to distribute
freely? What's wrong with that? 

While some emulators are made by hobbyist programmers, that does not mean that 
they are legal. If the sole purpose of an emulator is to allow the playing of
a console game on a PC, and the owner of the copyrights in that console game 
has not authorized the copying, performance, display, or derivative work created
when a console game is played on a PC, then the creation and use of that emulator 
constitutes an infringement of the copyrights in the console game. 

People making emulators and ROMs are helping publishers by making old games 
available that are no longer being sold by the copyright owner. This does not 
hurt anyone and allows gamers to play old favorites. What's the problem? 

The problem is that it's illegal to make or distribute software or hardware 
emulators or ROMs without the copyright or trademark owners' permission. Moreover,
copyrights and trademarks of games are corporate assets that are sometimes sold 
from one company to another. The recent sale of the Atari games library to Hasbro
Interactive is an example of such a transaction. But if these vintage titles are
available far and wide, it undermines the value of this intellectual property 
and adversely affects the copyright owner. 

In addition, the assumption that the only games involved are vintage or nostalgia
games is incorrect. In fact, there are now more and more programs available that
emulate current game systems such as the Nintendo 64 and the PlayStation. In 
other words, emulator/ROM piracy is affecting games that are still on the market. 

Finally, in the current highly competitive market, a top quality game costs $1.5 
million or more to develop, and double or triple that to market. Software publishers
must generate a meaningful return on their investments in this intellectual property
if they are to continue to meet the growing demand for technologically advanced 
products. The suggestion that some piracy is benign undermines respect for the 
intellectual property rights on which software companies are built. Piracy of any 
kind on any scale erodes this foundation. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
//Close Briefcase 

Any OTHER question about ROMs & Emulators? Good! 

As for the WR DVD's... it seems that Steve has posted a few more on eBay. 
Somebody has already used the "Buy It Now" on another one & I've placed 
a bid on YET
ANOTHER one.
_________________
 
TG Ref @ Large 
Slick Click Record Holder - 1,522 pts 
----------------------------------------------------          
RMRUCZEK
TG Board of Directors

Location: Brooklyn, NY
 Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:35 pm    Post subject: Copyright Issues - Another Take   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello everyone: 

I'll speak to a friend in the legal business and see what he can come through 
with on this one. I'm thinking that the ROMset may not even be of issue here. 

I'll share a few things with you that I know due to my hobby and expand from 
there. 

I collect artwork, specifically animated artwork that often depicts a proprietary
character (i.e. "Vampirella", "Supergirl", etc). Occassionally on Ebay, an auction
of an unpublished piece of "fan art" depicting a character is yanked due to
infringement of intellectual property rights. Ebay has some pretty heavy wording
in the form response you receive, but in effect, the company may very well own 
not just the chartacter but the way in which it is commercially depicted. 

A gaming performance features their proprietary character, of which they own the
intellectual property right to. In effect, selling the CD commercially is to a 
certain degree infringing on their rights. 

While I agree that they cannot control parodies of their creation under specific 
laws governing same, the performance in effect is hands-down a true and accurate 
image of their copyright-protected character. 

I liken this to not being able to so much as videotape an episode of the classic
TV series "Starcade" under the strictest interpretation of these laws. Even if
you yourself was the player featured, the owners of the program control the
content and useage of the content from their program. 

Here, in the video game Steve is selling, the copyright-owner did not create
the end-performance...only the means to do so. I have a sneaking suspicion that 
the existing copyright laws which contain sufficient foolproof verbiage to
encompass a video game performance may be key, so I'll wait for an expert in
the legal field to come through. 

Robert
_________________
Robert T Mruczek 
Twin Galaxies - Editor and Chief referee 
Star Wars classic arcade marathon champion 
rmruczek@doremus.com (work E-MAIL) 

****************************** 
 
----------------------------------------------------       
Zotmeister
Location: Tiverton, RI
 Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:59 am    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There it is - one small leap for Mario, one giant leap for Mariokind." 
- Steve Wiebe, July 4, 2004, upon apparently rolling Donkey Kong for the 
first time ever 

"Hm." [13 joystick clacks] "Way to go." 
- Steve Wiebe, about 30 seconds later, accidentally taking out the final top-right 
rivet on the final stage of L=21 with 2900 left on the bonus count 

"Twin Galaxies Proudly Presents!" 
- the title screen of the DVD 

"This score was achieved on July 4, 2004 on a legitimate Donkey Kong Arcade board
as tested by an expert in the field. Twin Galaxies has recognized that this score
is the first 1,000,000 point Donkey Kong Arcade game ever to be submitted but Twin 
Galaxies has not officially verified this score. Therefore, Twin Galaxies does not
endorse or promote the sale of this DVD and the DVD menu title 'Twin Galaxies 
proudly presents...' is not applicable." 
- the liner note of the DVD 

"copyright Steve Wiebe - content may not be reproduced without permission" 
- the DVD label 

The DVD came today in a simple package which I almost lacked the foresight to 
keep (translation: I stopped typing this to go fish it out of the garbage), a 
brown paper pouch sealed with masking tape and stuffed with sports pages from 
the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. The addresses were handwritten (hence my dumpster
diving). The slimcase the disc was in was not shrinkwrapped, making my decision 
as whether to open it or not rather easy. The data side of the disc is lavender 
in color. Go figure. 

The recording is what one would expect from a camcorder pointed at an arcade cabinet
(a Donkey Kong Junior cabinet, incidentally, although Steve claims there's a 
"straight Donkey Kong PCB" within). The audio captures the clacks of the infamous
Nintendo joystump [I just made that term up] and the hollow thumps of the jump
button quite nicely. I haven't watched the whole thing - far from it - but from 
what I've seen, he has amazing skill. He makes this look stupid easy. 

I wish there were a little something extra marking it as the original sold copy,
but it's little matter as I have the email (processed through eBay) verifying it
as such. Ultimately the legitimacy of this recording in TG's view is of little
concern to me as either way the collectibility is solid, but it will nonetheless
be a fascinating tale to watch unfold (not to mention that it will give my purchase
some history). 

Oh, and you can go buy Halo 2 now. - ZM
_________________
Darkness lessons learned/Avenging golden tresses/Yellow flower blooms 
- "(dedicated to Millia Rage)", original haiku 
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Donkey Kong - Conversion and Classic From Funspot Link
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Funspot's Classic Arcade Game Forum: Archive Fall 2003: Donkey Kong - Conversion
and Classic 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert T Mruczek 
 Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 09:04 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello all: 

Analysis is virtually complete. Except for additional minute details of differences
that I expect to receive shortly from Brian Kuh, we have completed the analysis of
"Double Donkey Kong" and what is regarded as classic "Donkey Kong". 

Experts Bill Mitchell and Chris Ayra contributed to the analysis of the tape itself.
Fellow referee Brien King managed to discuss the issue with Scott Brasington, one 
of the people who designed the "Double Donkey Kong" conversion kit. 

As per Brien, Scott has agreed to let us post his OPINIONS on the matter below, as
well as a few other interesting tidbits he provided. Afterwards, the official TG 
reply shall follow. 

**************************** 

The summary is in MY OPINION these games (DKjr and DK) are identical to the original 
for purposes of world records. Details (opinions) below. 

a) the eprom speed has no affect as the CPU clock speed is the determining factor. 
the eprom just has to be fast enough to keep up with the CPU. If too slow the 
game probably would not work at all. 

b) I have patches in the attract mode sequence, power up sequence, initialization 
sequence, high score save sequence, etc.. These patches do not execute during 
gameplay. There is one patch in the interrupt handler that is executed all the 
time even during gameplay. For DDK I took very special attention just for this 
reason and was able to make the P1+P2 check in the same amount of CPU cycles as 
the original ISR (it took a clever combination of checking for coin input and 
p1+p2 at same time). 

Gameplay timing on this game is really determined by the frame interrupt. Which 
runs at 30 (or 60) interrupts per second (I can't remember which it is). This HW 
interrupt is the main timing to drive the gameplay state machines etc... This 
is a very common implementation for classic raster games. In the 'backgroud' 
DK/J take care of dealing with music and a few other misc housekeeping activities. 
Each interrupt is when the game software checks for players inputs, moves the graphics, 
checks for points to be awarded etc. So really the hardware has dictated that this 
occurs for each video frame and the length of how many instructions executed is not 
critical as long as you don't overrun your budget in which case I suppose you could 
lose a frame. Again, that is why I was careful in making the interrupt path of code 
have the same cycle timing as the original. 

c) The sounds that are different are handled by external analog hardware. The game
software simply writes to a latch and the external analog hardware produces the sound
independent of the game software timing. DDK since it is built on DKjr hardware so 
the sounds are those of DKjr. The sounds are mapped as follows. 

DK pound is mapped to DKjr crash 
DK walk is mapped to Dkjr walk 
DK jump is mapped to Dkjr jump. 
None of these affect gameplay in terms of being able to acheive a high score. 

So my opinion is for DK or DKJ you can accept a score on DDK. 

That being said, lets talk about a couple other of my kits.... 

Asteroids: My asteroids HS kit has extended scoring. In order to implement this 
I had to add extra instructions (and vector instructions) in the normal gameplay 
sequence. This extra code is to check to see if extra digits need to be displayed 
and display them if needed. This causes extra CPU cycles and extra vector engine 
cycles if the additional digits are displayed. Vector games are a little different 
in raster games in timings. They don't really have a frame interrupt at a constant 
speed, instead they setup a list of vectors to draw, tell the hardware to draw them, 
then in the background setup the next list of vectors to display. The 'timing' is 
more a function of how fast it can draw all the vectors. The more vectors the slower. 
the less the faster. I don't know for sure, but I would guess this can cause 
very slight differences in the game play from a timing perspective. Not sure if that 
makes it easier or harder?? Additionally with the extended scoring, when the game 
rolls to 100K, it continues to execute with hard difficulty (the original game when it 
rolled back over to 0 would have reverted back to easy mode for the first 30k). So 
in that sense asteroids HS game is harder, as the player does not get the break of going 
back to easy every time it is rolled (since it does not roll over). 

Multipede: Centipede/Multipede multigame: Since this game is built millipede hardware, 
I think a millipede score on a multipede would be acceptable for similar reasons as above 
about how raster games do timings and how the patches were applied. However, for 
centipede on multipede the patches are more complicated. They are more complicated due 
to how the trackballs are handled. So the interrupt path for centipede on multipede is 
longer. I don't think this affects gameplay, as again, for most raster games gameplay 
timing is controlled by the frame interrupt. But I can't be for certain it it is easier 
or harder or same. 

Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any more questions. 

*********************************** 

At this time, the current TG world record will be reclassed accordingly to a separate 
category. We believe the score to be an incredible accomplishment in it's own right, 
and will always treat it as such, however for sake of purity, the reclass is necessary
once the new category is added. 

Additionally, Steve Wiebe contacted me this weekend and understands the situation and
our position, and is in the process of acquiring a classic DK so as to compete on the 
real deal. 

That being said, I trust that the matter is now put to rest to everyone's satisfaction.
I just wanted to tie up the sole loose end and provide closure to the site where the
information on the DDK conversion kit originated. 

Robert 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------  
D_Harris 
 Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 12:54 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does that mean a completely different category, or the same with a "flag" denoting
the specific(T.G. approved) hack?(Since these are now being tracked, completely 
separate categories are totally unnecessary in my opinion). 

And since T.G. will now track another major hack(outside of Turbo Ms.Pac-man),
what about certain Pac-man, and Williams' game(Robotron, StarGate, ect.) hack/s? 

Darren Harris 
Staten Island, New York. 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert T Mruczek 
 Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 06:24 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Darren: 

The platform will still be regarded as "Arcade", yet the title is not being
considered a "Hack". Rather, it is being considered as a TG-approved variant in 
the arcade section of the scoreboard and upcoming Book. 

The major hacks that TG tracks (Turbo Ms Pac, Super Galaxian, Super Missile Attack,
can't be sure if there are others) are also listed in the arcade section, and are 
generally regarded as TG-approved "hacks" but are listed in the arcade category 
for simplicity sake. 

Just like "Jungle King" and "Jungle Hunt", we will treat the two DK scores separate 
in the arcade category. 

The DKJr score, however, will remain as is...there is sufficient evidence to
substantiate that there is virtually no difference, including timing, between 
the two, as the conversion kit is DKJr based to begin with. 

Hope that helps. 

Robert 
 
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  
mspaeth 
 Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 07:50 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just bizarre. 

The only hardware differences between dk and dkjr is addition sprites, and modified
analog sounds. 

Almost no code changes are needed to make DK run on DKJr hardware, so if the changes 
needed to add the game switching the DKjr are considered negligible enough to not 
differentiate between DDK DKJr and real DKJr, the same code changes to DK would 
seem to be just as negligable. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Robert T Mruczek 
 Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 11:58 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Mark: 

Well, after the investigation and timing differences were noted, the prudent course
of action was to track the two separately. The differences, unfortunately, are not
as glaring as, say, the known ROMsets for "Marble Madness" or "Astro Fighter", but 
across 117 stages they do add up. 

There were gamers that said the two HAD to be tracked separely, those that said
"only if" the differences were significant, and those that said "not at all"...
just so you know. 

Robert 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick 
 Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 02:11 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert, 
I can understand your interest in researching the differences in DK and DDK but 
isn't there some loss of objectivity when one of the experts analyzing the game 
for you is a current record holder on that title (Billy Mitchell)? After looking 
at the current book of records I see Billy Mitchell and Chris Ayra have a 
relationship that goes back to the original Twin Galaxies arcade so that appears
to bring the objectivity level even lower, doesn't it? You know, buddies will
stick together and back each other up. 

After reading several postings from mspaeth, it would appear he is very knowledgable 
with computer hardware and software and probably would have been a better choice 
as analyst since he appears to have no stake in the outcome. What did the creator
of DDK have to say about timing issues? Just my 2 cents. 

Rick 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry 
 Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 05:39 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An explanation of how the test was conducted is in order. Two guys sitting on a
couch watching a videotape can hardly be called scientific. Rick, it seems the
creator's input you were looking for is in the first posting of this thread.
From what he has written, I doubt any human could tell the difference. 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert T Mruczek 
 Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 09:49 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry: 

Thanks for the reply. I agree...human players watching a tape is not absolutely 
scientific. However, consider that wach has 22+ years of experience at the title,
moreso than the originating programmers. If anyone can visually spot timing 
differences, it's these guys. 

Second, we have the extremely detailed opinions of one of the gamer designers
which pretty much states that the games, in his opinion, play the same for record
and scoring purposes. Third, I have data from a third source, Brian Kuh, who plays
this one moreso than most gamers and who has recently achieved a kill screen
proficiency. 

Add up all the empirical data and we at TG believe that we've covered all the
bases, and with the right sources. For sake of purity, the scores are split. 

As for myself, I place a great deal of implicit trust and respect in the integrity 
of fellow TG Board of Director member, Bill Mitchell, and know that he places what's
good for the gaming community first and foremost in all of his gaming contributions. 

Robert 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Anonymous 
 Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 07:44 am 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"..As for myself, I place a great deal of implicit trust and respect in the 
integrity of fellow TG Board of Director member, Bill Mitchell, and know that
he places what's good for the gaming community first and foremost in all of his 
gaming contributions." 

The employees of Enron thought the same way. 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard M. 
 Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 08:20 am 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous' skepticism is understood and felt to a degree. I am willing to trust 
almost anybody at least a little. But I am unwilling to trust anyone absolutely. 

Maybe the games do play the same so that an expert on the "conversion kit" version
is an expert on the original. I think the proof of that would be for Steve Wiebe
to play the original Donkey Kong to establish the record. His existing game should
fall under a separate category. 

And I see from Robert's post opening his thread that Steve is getting his own
DK machine for this purpose. :-) 

-- Richard M. 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Robert T Mruczek 
 Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 07:01 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello all: 

The famous "Anonymous" posts yet again. This time, I do respect his/her opinion. 
No debate from me. However, I have to mention the following, which might be
apparent to some but not to all... 

-> Regardless of who you rely on for your scoring information and verification,
know that the staff involved is likely small, less than 10 people (if even that
many), none of which get compensated for their efforts 

-> We do this in addition to full-time jobs and family concerns 

-> In the precious few hours left after transit to/from work and what little
eating/sleeping we enjoy, we dedicate that to the gaming community 

-> It is in those few hours per week, which in some cases is almost a full-time
job in itself, that we verify scores, watch performances, write articles, answer
gamer inquiries, and tend to media requests 

That being said, we do try our best to work with the resources at hand.
Unfortunately, we do not have a multi-tiered group that can check the checkers
and so forth...it's just us...we rely on ourselves and fellow gamers for the 
matters at hand. 

Your "Enron" comment, though well understood, is an entirely different matter,
as no monies are involved, only integrity. Say what you will about "Arthur 
Anderson" as well, but there too was monies involved. We are a free service
provider for the time being, one which shares (moreso than most) results of 
investigations, extreme details of verifications, and more. Others do not share
our enthusiasim for openess and full disclosure. 

As for the trust I place in my colleague, know that there are five (5) Board
Members, so a certain amount of check-and-balance is in place, for the sake
of further maintaining impartiality within decisions affecting the gaming
community. I believe that it is only prudent to have a check-and-balance system
in place, trust aside, so that different perspectives are always consulted. 

Again, your comments are well appreciated and understood, though I do not
necessarily agree with the analogy in full. 

Robert 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry 
 Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 06:32 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert, 
My comments about how the test was conducted were meant to help you counteract the 
nay-sayers such as "anonymous." However, I had hoped a more scientific test had
been conducted (maybe it was) since videotape watching can open itself up to 
scrutiny due to the analog properties of VCR's and minor tape speed differences 
between machines. I'm sure you took that into consideration beforehand. I do not
envy your job! 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert T Mruczek 
 Friday, November 14, 2003 - 01:35 pm 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Barry: 

Well understood. The different VCR issue is a main concern of mine when viewing
"fastest completion" events, or comparing performances on titles where difficulty
settings proportionately increase speed of gameplay action. But in general, we 
are all reasonable when it comes to this fact of technology. Not all referees 
will have the same VCR, and not all gamers will record on the same tape type or
speed, so we try our best under the circumstances. 

The problem becomes even more difficult when the title is relatively unknown,
or brand new, but again, we try our best. 

Even so, under the best of circumstances, nuances can and do exist. But we're 
practical and reasonable about that in general. 

Thanks !! 

Robert 
 



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Free Hit Counter TWIN GALAXIES FACTS: Link The Dodge City period of Twin Galaxies was the time when players came from all over the country to play off on games in the local famous Iowa arcade of Walter Day, Founder Twin Galaxies. November 10, 1981, Walter Day opened his own arcade in the sleepy Midwestern town of Ottumwa, Iowa. On February 9, 1982, Day's growing database of high score statistics were made available to the public as the Twin Galaxies National Scoreboard. As Twin Galaxies' fame spread further, Walter Day was designated an assistant editor in charge of video game scores for the 1984-1986 editions of the U.S. edition of the Guinness Book of World Records. Today, this rulebook has evolved into Twin Galaxies' most well known product: Twin Galaxies' Official Video Game & Pinball Book of World Records (ISBN 1887472-25-8), a 984-page book containing scores from players in 31 different countries compiled since 1981. A second edition, totaling 1500 pages in a two-volume set, updated with today's hottest PC titles as well as modern consoles like the X-Box and PS2, is scheduled for release in 2005. 1986 Guinness Sport Record Book






Thank you,
Paul Dean, www.spyhunter007.com, Spy Hunter Champion, June 28, 1985

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